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+--- Thread: S57 SHL State of the Union (/showthread.php?tid=113188)
RE: S57 SHL State of the Union - JKortesi81 - 01-21-2021
01-21-2021, 11:10 PMhhh81 Wrote:01-21-2021, 05:30 PMJKortesi81 Wrote: As for the actual topics at hand:I recall someone in HO maybe 3-6 months ago, threw out a ballpark of tens of thousands of dollars (20-30k is what's coming back to mind, I could be wrong. I know he was reluctant to share a number at that time). This is an insanely awesome project that a guy is doing for free. I hope his classes and two internships have been awesome, and whenever he has time to dig in for the next steps he can get back to it. I can't being to imagine the back end work.
The Index - I have no idea how much work truly goes into it all. It's crazy from what I can tell. How much would hiring someone from the outside cost to make us an index? I'd personally chip in, as this site has been so important to me for the last 4 and half years. I feel like a decent amount of us would. Is there a ballpark figure? Wondering how cost effective it would be. Could be a better alternative. I'd also be wiling to just straight up pay Evan, but he might just want/need the time for himself. He's insanely busy, as we know.
Teddy shared some stuff a few posts up. Good stuff on the dev team.
Yeah, i read that part and still only half understood it.
Building indexes (indices?) is not my bag it seems.
Even Cal's low $5,000 estimate is pretty nuts. I can't imagine us ever raising that kind of scratch. Unless. . . .
....BAKE SALE!
RE: S57 SHL State of the Union - Sean - 01-21-2021
01-21-2021, 11:22 PMJKortesi81 Wrote:01-21-2021, 11:10 PMhhh81 Wrote: I recall someone in HO maybe 3-6 months ago, threw out a ballpark of tens of thousands of dollars (20-30k is what's coming back to mind, I could be wrong. I know he was reluctant to share a number at that time). This is an insanely awesome project that a guy is doing for free. I hope his classes and two internships have been awesome, and whenever he has time to dig in for the next steps he can get back to it. I can't being to imagine the back end work.
Teddy shared some stuff a few posts up. Good stuff on the dev team.
Yeah, i read that part and still only half understood it.
Building indexes (indices?) is not my bag it seems.
Even Cal's low $5,000 estimate is pretty nuts. I can't imagine us ever raising that kind of scratch. Unless. . . .
....BAKE SALE!
I'll buy a lottery ticket tomorrow. I've got it.
RE: S57 SHL State of the Union - JKortesi81 - 01-21-2021
01-21-2021, 11:26 PMTommySalami Wrote:01-21-2021, 11:22 PMJKortesi81 Wrote: Yeah, i read that part and still only half understood it.
Building indexes (indices?) is not my bag it seems.
Even Cal's low $5,000 estimate is pretty nuts. I can't imagine us ever raising that kind of scratch. Unless. . . .
....BAKE SALE!
I'll buy a lottery ticket tomorrow. I've got it.
Is there anything you can't do?
RE: S57 SHL State of the Union - Slappydoodle - 01-21-2021
I haven’t been on since I wrote my last post yesterday. Needed some time to chill.
Here is the deal:
I have been in this league for a long time. I know others have been here longer. I have given a hell of a lot to the league over that time. I’m aware others have given and still are giving more. I have invested myself into this league and to the teams I’ve been on. Yes, others have done the same. Those of you that have shared a locker room with me will hopefully know I’ve tried to be a good and giving teammate.
I’ve seen the league grow considerably in that time. Every roster had bots on it when I started due to the lack of active users. I’ve tried to help build a community here and provide some laughs to others along the way.
Yes, I am a lot older than most of you. I’m 47 now. I’ve been married over twenty two years. I’ve got two kids, a house and a career. My time is precious to me in a way that frankly most of you will not be able to understand for decades.
I say all this to create a basis for understanding my frustration. The league has grown considerably. Unfortunately for me, it has also moved away from me considerably. Well beyond the index, I have disagreed with most of the changes made around here over the last roughly two years. I’m not about to rehash everything or try to itemize them here. It’s enough to say I have watched something I love move in a direction I do not like or agree with. This has been a frustrating and painful process.
The switch to FHM, forced by what I see as the active and willful sabotage of a few bad actors, was hugely bothersome to me. This frustration is unceasing and daily due to the extremely limited interface I can now have with the game itself. I don’t have the time or inclination to watch a YouTube stream just to find out what happened to my team that day. I want to jump on, check what I want and get back off. This is obviously impossible right now. Therefore, the sim itself is largely just inaccessible to me.
Now, all that being said, can I be an asshole? Absolutely I can. I’m not a quiet or shy person. I am often loud, frequently obnoxious, always opinionated and rarely uncertain. I will give voice to my feelings whether they are feelings of frustration, happiness or whatever else. This is one facet of who I am. It’s not all of who I am. I would hope that many of you on this site have received kind or thoughtful words from me in the past. I have hopefully helped some of you along the way with advice, insight or just a willingness to listen. Like onions and Shrek, I have layers.
I spoke out of frustration and some anger yesterday. It’s a thing I’ve been known to do. Frankly it’s laughable to try and argue that the index was addressed in that OP. The word was said, but only in a passing comment about something else. The frustration of that drove me to write words more inflammatory than was probably called for. Words were called for though. I’m adamant about that. A post back in October is not sufficient to address what I think should be the number one priority right now.
I hope this helps clear up my motivation and explain in part my tone. I’m pretty much done with this site at this point, so it’s unlikely to happen again here in the near future. But somewhere out there I will be spouting off about something. That’s a certainty.
To those of you that have attacked me here. Do not take this as an apology. I still think most of you are self righteous, patronizing, condescending, mob mentality, meme thinking douchebags. And you can still take turns blowing me.
Yours truly,
Slappy
RE: S57 SHL State of the Union - Hallsy - 01-22-2021
01-21-2021, 11:50 PMSlappydoodle Wrote: I’m 47 now.
Ok Boomer.
RE: S57 SHL State of the Union - SecondSucks22 - 01-22-2021
01-21-2021, 11:50 PMSlappydoodle Wrote: The switch to FHM, forced by what I see as the active and willful sabotage of a few bad actors, was hugely bothersome to me.Ok there SHLQ
RE: S57 SHL State of the Union - notorioustig - 01-22-2021
Who else got transported back to election coverage when they read "willful sabotage of a few bad actors"
RE: S57 SHL State of the Union - nour - 01-22-2021
01-21-2021, 11:50 PMSlappydoodle Wrote: I haven’t been on since I wrote my last post yesterday. Needed some time to chill.
Here is the deal:
I have been in this league for a long time. I know others have been here longer. I have given a hell of a lot to the league over that time. I’m aware others have given and still are giving more. I have invested myself into this league and to the teams I’ve been on. Yes, others have done the same. Those of you that have shared a locker room with me will hopefully know I’ve tried to be a good and giving teammate.
I’ve seen the league grow considerably in that time. Every roster had bots on it when I started due to the lack of active users. I’ve tried to help build a community here and provide some laughs to others along the way.
Yes, I am a lot older than most of you. I’m 47 now. I’ve been married over twenty two years. I’ve got two kids, a house and a career. My time is precious to me in a way that frankly most of you will not be able to understand for decades.
I say all this to create a basis for understanding my frustration. The league has grown considerably. Unfortunately for me, it has also moved away from me considerably. Well beyond the index, I have disagreed with most of the changes made around here over the last roughly two years. I’m not about to rehash everything or try to itemize them here. It’s enough to say I have watched something I love move in a direction I do not like or agree with. This has been a frustrating and painful process.
The switch to FHM, forced by what I see as the active and willful sabotage of a few bad actors, was hugely bothersome to me. This frustration is unceasing and daily due to the extremely limited interface I can now have with the game itself. I don’t have the time or inclination to watch a YouTube stream just to find out what happened to my team that day. I want to jump on, check what I want and get back off. This is obviously impossible right now. Therefore, the sim itself is largely just inaccessible to me.
Now, all that being said, can I be an asshole? Absolutely I can. I’m not a quiet or shy person. I am often loud, frequently obnoxious, always opinionated and rarely uncertain. I will give voice to my feelings whether they are feelings of frustration, happiness or whatever else. This is one facet of who I am. It’s not all of who I am. I would hope that many of you on this site have received kind or thoughtful words from me in the past. I have hopefully helped some of you along the way with advice, insight or just a willingness to listen. Like onions and Shrek, I have layers.
I spoke out of frustration and some anger yesterday. It’s a thing I’ve been known to do. Frankly it’s laughable to try and argue that the index was addressed in that OP. The word was said, but only in a passing comment about something else. The frustration of that drove me to write words more inflammatory than was probably called for. Words were called for though. I’m adamant about that. A post back in October is not sufficient to address what I think should be the number one priority right now.
I hope this helps clear up my motivation and explain in part my tone. I’m pretty much done with this site at this point, so it’s unlikely to happen again here in the near future. But somewhere out there I will be spouting off about something. That’s a certainty.
To those of you that have attacked me here. Do not take this as an apology. I still think most of you are self righteous, patronizing, condescending, mob mentality, meme thinking douchebags. And you can still take turns blowing me.
Yours truly,
Slappy
Hey man, so I’m gonna address this as best I can because like a lot of people said yesterday, your point isn’t the issue. The point you’re making is fine, it’s how you conduct yourself and how you present those points that people have issue with.
I’m sorry to hear that the site has moved in a direction that you disagree with. I know how frustrating it can be to have something you love no longer align with what you want from it. I really don’t know what to say to this other than I’m sorry there’s been a disconnect there. I’ve been in Head Office as Co-Commissioner and Commissioner for a while now, and I can confidently say that the changes and direction we go in isn’t baseless or purposeless however. The direction we take this league is based on feedback from the majority of people on this site and what they want out of it. The seasonal site poll and this State of the Union post are the reason for that. Would I like every single person in the world to get what they want from this site? Yes. Can we possibly please everyone? No, it’s just not feasible. I wish I could say more but as of the last few seasons, my goal and the rest of HO’s goal is to take this site in the direction the majority of the population here want it to go, that is the upper limit of what I can give.
Say what you will about the switch to FHM, but for the vast majority of users, it’s been more engaging than STHS, more fun to build a player than STHS, more fun to follow than STHS, and is a platform that actually gets updated by an active team so issues can be fixed over time. The circumstances that got us to FHM were obviously not ideal, but let’s not pretend STHS was this unbelievable engine that we had to abandon. It was out of date, simplistic, one dimensional and stale for a lot of users. FHM, even considering the reasons it came in as the new sim engine, has been, at least from what I can tell, an overwhelming success over STHS. It’s not perfect, there’s work to do to make it the best it can be, but it is unequivocally better than STHS.
I get it. You’re a loud, opinionated, outspoken person who sticks to his ideals and makes his thoughts known. Great, we literally made this thread for people to speak out and say what’s on their mind. It doesn’t absolve you from the fact that the tone you take is objectionable to a lot of people, passion-backed or not, valid points or not.
The index is something everyone wants. I’m not pitching reformatting the forum or removing site LRs because I think it’s fun, we’re pitching this to gauge the site opinion on it, because their removal gives us a lot more space to work with when hosting the index here. This is a move specifically made to support those working on the index. You want the new index yesterday. We all do, no one is clamouring about keeping the index as is. But people are working on it, it’s a lot more complex than just closing your eyes and wishing really really hard that the index will come. The dev team is doing what it can, Head Office can’t make them double or triple their speed. Theyre doing their best to give back to the site in a meaningful way, just like you did. Be patient with them and give them a chance, they care about this just as much, if not more, than you do.
If you read through this, I appreciate it. Hope you’re around when the index does go live.
nour
RE: S57 SHL State of the Union - Waters - 01-22-2021
01-21-2021, 09:39 AMztevans Wrote: Do I think Slappy expressed his frustrations in the right way? Not even a little bit. I think @Avakael summed that up nicely enough, so I won't rehash it.Tolerance of minorities not tolerance of stupid
Is it a laughable, worthy of ridicule point that he thinks the index should be a priority? Not at all. I disagree that we should have waited for a proper index to make the jump to FHM, but I do think progress on that front should definitely be a part of any future "State of the SHL" posts.
Perhaps the most salient point he made is there do be quite a few people who love to preach tolerance and also love to dunk on people, which sucks. JUST GET ALONG WITH EACH OTHER YOU NIMWITS.
RE: S57 SHL State of the Union - r0tzbua - 01-22-2021
I'm late and missed everything. But I wanted to be here too.
So uhhh. Applied?
RE: S57 SHL State of the Union - SpartanGibbles - 01-22-2021
It's been a while since I posted one of these since I got my new job but I think it's recipe time.
I haven't been experimenting in the kitchen as much lately but here's one I have been doing lately as I try to eat a bit healthier but also still have something taste good. I usually take the easier way on this and use some frozen stuff if I'm tired but both are great options
Gibbles Chicken Bacon Ranch Wraps(Written as directions for 2 wraps but honestly I scale it up to make stuff for 10 usually)
Ingredients:
1 6-8 oz Chicken Breast(Sub 2 frozen breaded chicken patties)
2 Leafs of Green Leaf Lettuce
2 Large Tortillas/Flatbreads
~15 Frozen Tater Tots(You could make your own but I'm a lazy bastard about this)
2-3 oz Ranch Dressing
4 Strips of Bacon(can also sub in cooked bacon bits or precooked bacon for this part)
2 Slices of Pepperjack Cheese(Another great substitution is crumbled Feta Cheese)
2 oz Vidalia Onion
1/2 Cucumber(Optional, I just love the taste of them so I add em to mine)
Buffalo Wing Sauce(Optional but gives a nice kick to it)
Olive Oil(only needed if cooking the chicken breast yourself)
Salt and Pepper to taste
What you Need:
Cutting Board
Chef's Knife
Microwave
Skillet
Microwave safe plate
Wooden spatula
Stove
Paper Towel
How to make it:
1. Cut up your veggies into small pieces and set aside for later. Roughly chop the lettuce, dice the onion & cucumber using your Chef's Knife.
2. Heat skillet on medium-high heat. Once fully heated, add bacon strips and cook until crispy. We want these to almost crumble on their own. I personally usually just buy pre-cooked for this and dice it with my knife, but cooking it fresh adds something special as well. Once bacon is cooked set aside to cool on a paper towel lined plate
3. If cooking chicken yourself, chop into small 1/2 inch pieces using your Chef's Knife. Be sure to wash the knife and cutting board after to avoid cross contamination. Lightly season chicken pieces with salt and pepper.
(If using frozen patties, skip to step 5)
4. Begin heating skillet on medium-high heat. Add Olive Oil to skillet. When completely heated add your chicken and cook until done. This is kinda something you just learn to tell but usually I find mine is done by the time I have a little light browning on all sides of the meat.
5. Place tortillas/flatbread on microwave safe plate and warm in the microwave for roughly 20-30 seconds. We want them warm so they are easy to fold. Once warmed, set tortilla/flatbread aside temporarily.
6. Place Tater Tots and/or chicken patties on microwave safe plate and cook for roughly 2.5 minutes, stopping once to flip the patties if applicable. If using frozen patties, roughly chop after cooked into 1/2 inch pieces.
7. On warm tortilla/flatbread add 1-2 oz of ranch dressing in the middle, leaving at least an inch of room at the side. Place lettuce, onions, and cucumber on top of the ranch. Next add your Pepperjack cheese, followed by bacon crumbles, chicken pieces and then the tater tots. Garnish with buffalo sauce as desired.
8. Wrap the tortilla/flatbread by first folding in the inch on each side you did not add ranch too. Then bring on side over and wrap it around the ingredients before rolling the entire thing to make and enclosed wrap. I personally like to then grill mine on the stove to seal it a bit better and give the wrapping some extra crunch but this all depends on personal preference.
9. Enjoy your wraps. You can cut them in half to make handling easier or eat it with the entire thing in your hand like I do. I hope you enjoy and if I remember to take a picture of one tomorrow I will add it in to this post.
RE: S57 SHL State of the Union - RomanesEuntDomus - 01-22-2021
I think the whole topic of the engine switch and how it was handled is one that still looms over a lot of other discussions especially for the people that were or still are somewhat frustrated by it. I'm not even sure it is worth re-hashing this discussion at this point because the change has happened and will obviously not be reversed, but I think it's something for everyone to keep in mind at least. This is on both sides, on those who were frustrated with the change to not be bitter about it and give the new status quo a chance even if it's different from what you are used to and have loved for years, and on those that love the change to accept that not everyone was as excited about it as you are and that those critical of it have valid points and aren't just stuck-up boomers.
I would say that I tended to be a bit more critical about the change than most, although I very early on agreed that it was necessary and needed to happen given the flaws we had recently discovered in STHS and the willingness of some people to exploit them. I think the main issue that I and many others have had was not that the change shouldn't have happened, but that it felt rushed and pushed through in a somewhat intransparent manner by what felt like a rather small group of users that were very excited about it and not particularly interested in hearing dissenting voices. If you look at it from both sides, there are good arguments on both the Pro and the Con side:
The Pros:
- The change was necessary due to the exploitable nature of STHS
- FHM is an objectively better engine both in term of mechanics and presentation
- A new engine is obviously exciting and a chance to reinvigorate the league
All these are huge points that even the people who were critical of the change shouldn't sweep aside. Especially the first two made the sim-change more or less unavoidable. It needed to happen eventually, no matter how worried we were about the negatives:
The Cons:
- Parity in the league plummeted, lots of teams became either unbeatable or completely uncompetitive over night
- Lower activity and lower TPE players suffered significantly
- We still don't have an adequate way to present game results even with a lot of work and ressources being invested for months by awesome dedicated people
All these negatives are stuff that should be taken seriously as well. No matter how excited you are about the new engine, you shouldn't ignore how many people are affected by these negative factors and how their enjoyment of the league might have suffered because of them. Again, that doesn't mean that the change shouldn't have happened, but it's warranted to be critical about its circumstances and its effects. Especially since some of these things have been more foreseeable than others.
The severe decline in parity was obvious pretty much from the start and to give some credit, measures have already been taken to adress this. Still, there seems to be a significant portion of people who prefer to think that there is no issue and to just tell everyone who is concerned about parity to "git gud". The lack of an index was an issue that we were aware of even before the sim-change happened but back then we seemed to have been more blue-eyed and naive and thought that this could be rectified within a few weeks. And isn't the fact that something was severely underestimated back when the change happened and has now turned out to be a project that requires hundreds of man hours and the equivalent of thousands of real life dollars to fix, something that warrantes criticism and a problem that shows that peoples concerns and frustrations with the engine-switch were at least somewhat warranted? Add to that the fact that the position of "league boxscore screenshot guy" has been discussed bascially from the moment this issue arose yet it still hasn't been made a thing for whatever reason... It's fair to be critical of those things and the fact that it felt like the negatives were brushed aside, underestimated and not taken seriously by a lot of the people who pushed the engine switch through.
As I already said, this is not meant at all to criticize the awesome people who are currently working so hard to give us an index and who have to deal with the mistakes made by other people before they were brought in to fix them. And generally speaking, I'm also quite happy with the league leadership we have nowadays both at the very top and in the various departments that have been created or overhauled along the way. We have much better leadership and more accountability than we used to and I'm thankful that all you guys do for the league. But every executive decision you make is bound to leave some people behind and in the case of the engine-switch, there might have been a bit of a blind spot with some of you that led to you underestimating the amount of concerns and the number of people affected by this change in a negative way.
RE: S57 SHL State of the Union - Sean - 01-22-2021
01-21-2021, 11:32 PMJKortesi81 Wrote: Is there anything you can't do?
I can't lick my own nose.
RE: S57 SHL State of the Union - PremierBromanov - 01-22-2021
01-22-2021, 01:12 AMWaters Wrote:i love this01-21-2021, 09:39 AMztevans Wrote: Do I think Slappy expressed his frustrations in the right way? Not even a little bit. I think @Avakael summed that up nicely enough, so I won't rehash it.Tolerance of minorities not tolerance of stupid
Is it a laughable, worthy of ridicule point that he thinks the index should be a priority? Not at all. I disagree that we should have waited for a proper index to make the jump to FHM, but I do think progress on that front should definitely be a part of any future "State of the SHL" posts.
Perhaps the most salient point he made is there do be quite a few people who love to preach tolerance and also love to dunk on people, which sucks. JUST GET ALONG WITH EACH OTHER YOU NIMWITS.
RE: S57 SHL State of the Union - ztevans - 01-22-2021
I started to write a very long reply to RED (he's contagious) but it got very rambly and incoherent, so I think I'm just gonna post some bullet points.
- There's no one I want in leadership positions in the SHL rather than the people doing the job right now. This is the most important point.
- I think it's been made abundantly clear over the past 17 pages that the index is a priority for that leadership, just that it wasn't touched on in detail in the OP. That was perhaps an oversight, but I would not say the index has been overlooked.
- Having the box scores posted in Quebec's Discord has been incredibly vital to my enjoyment of the league since coming back, and I hope this is a feature of every LR. With that said, I'm sure it's not, and I think a paid position to provide that info on the forums in lieu of the index while that's still being worked on is not a bad idea.