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***CampinKiller*** · 07-28-2019, 03:51 PM

07-28-2019, 03:30 PMCarbine Wrote:
07-28-2019, 02:49 PMFordyford Wrote: Yea but it’s not a bad opinion it’s a discriminatory opinion. What if he’d said I don’t think gays shouldn’t be commentating hockey.
No.

He first made a joke that women were invading hockey or sports commentating (I don't recall exactly, doesn't matter). I am convinced this was a joke since he "blamed Bettman", a popular joke among hockey fans. It's akin to the "Thanks Obama" meme. It's a joke. If you think it's something else, I don't know what to tell you.

He then clarified his stance, saying that the women play-by-play/colour commentators he's listened to just aren't up to par to the seasoned, male, commentators that have traditionally called hockey games for years. I don't know if he made this clarification publicly, but this is what I gathered after speaking to him directly.

He prefers to listen to game audio only if they're calling games. His main gripe is that the on-air chemistry between the male and female commentators he's listened to is mediocre at best. Lots of dead air, poor flow of conversation, etc. It's to be expected for these women who are new to the game. It's the same for male commentators as well, you're working with someone new and you need to develop that on-air chemistry.

This is why I'm in awe of the outrage mob over this. You're just looking for a reason to demonize someone. I stop following after I spoke to him because I already knew how it was going to end. The pressure wouldn't let up, the mob would flame him wherever he made a comment and ultimately leaving the site would be the only option to escape the backlash. I don't blame him at all for reacting the way he has. If you have proof of him explicitly saying that women shouldn't be in hockey or sports broadcasting, I'd love to see it. But as far as I'm concerned this has been a massive overreaction.

Have I summized this clusterfuck pretty accurately, PK? @~~PenKnight~~

This is a very good summary of what happened. Too bad everyone will still only put words in his mouth and continue to applaud themselves for harassing him.

ztevans · 07-28-2019, 04:35 PM

07-28-2019, 03:30 PMCarbine Wrote: No.

He first made a joke that women were invading hockey or sports commentating (I don't recall exactly, doesn't matter). I am convinced this was a joke since he "blamed Bettman", a popular joke among hockey fans. It's akin to the "Thanks Obama" meme. It's a joke. If you think it's something else, I don't know what to tell you.

I will grant you this point.

07-28-2019, 03:30 PMCarbine Wrote: He then clarified his stance, saying that the women play-by-play/colour commentators he's listened to just aren't up to par to the seasoned, male, commentators that have traditionally called hockey games for years. I don't know if he made this clarification publicly, but this is what I gathered after speaking to him directly.

He prefers to listen to game audio only if they're calling games. His main gripe is that the on-air chemistry between the male and female commentators he's listened to is mediocre at best. Lots of dead air, poor flow of conversation, etc. It's to be expected for these women who are new to the game. It's the same for male commentators as well, you're working with someone new and you need to develop that on-air chemistry.

He never once responded to the initial public thread to "clarify his stance." I can't speak for any other rooms, but in Russia he compared listening to women commentators to watching cooking shows with eight-year-old chefs, as if being a woman made them equally qualified to announce a professional hockey game as to letting an eight-year-old run a restaurant. He said they, quote, "stumble and talk nonsense" as if we live in a world where Don Cherry isn't heralded for exactly that. #BunchOfJerks. At no point did on-air chemistry come up, because God forbid that might have given him reason to think there will one day be female announcers that meet his standards once they have time to develop that chemistry with their colleagues.

07-28-2019, 03:30 PMCarbine Wrote: This is why I'm in awe of the outrage mob over this. You're just looking for a reason to demonize someone. I stop following after I spoke to him because I already knew how it was going to end. The pressure wouldn't let up, the mob would flame him wherever he made a comment and ultimately leaving the site would be the only option to escape the backlash. I don't blame him at all for reacting the way he has. If you have proof of him explicitly saying that women shouldn't be in hockey or sports broadcasting, I'd love to see it. But as far as I'm concerned this has been a massive overreaction.

Have I summized this clusterfuck pretty accurately, PK? @~~PenKnight~~

Leaving the site (which he still hasn't done, in case everyone ignored the fact that he has already replied in this thread) was not the only option. He could have clarified his comments publicly. He could have acknowledged even any semblance of remorse for his comments. He could have not drawn attention to them by adding a "Battle of the Sexes" signature and going on a rampage of posting in random media threads about why "women aren't mad" at other aspects of the site.

So, no. You haven't summarized the clusterfuck accurately. He will say you have, of course. But I'm getting really tired of having the beacons of truth of the SHL inform me how the conversation I actually witnessed and participated in played out.

Grapehead · 07-28-2019, 04:36 PM

07-28-2019, 03:30 PMCarbine Wrote: It's a joke.

No. Just stop, dude. These "jokes" are not acceptable, and that's what the community came together to say.

Samsung virtual assistant · 07-28-2019, 05:25 PM

Basically, dont joke about or say anything that can be offensive to any group of people in any way.

***sköldpaddor*** · 07-28-2019, 05:39 PM

It's not "just a joke" if it's an actual attitude held by people who have the ability to actually enforce policy based on that prejudice. It's also not "a joke" if you're unwilling to even say that it was a joke, and instead double down on your garbage behavior and cry about people being mean to you for your bigoted ideas because they just didn't get your humor.

Honestly I feel like the number of good members you could lose if they feel like none of the leadership has their backs when somebody makes them feel unwelcome over race/gender/orientation/whatever definitely outweighs the odd prejudiced asshole here and there who throws a fit and leaves because nobody likes their bad sexist jokes.

If you can't be funny without mocking a marginalized community, you should probably just accept that you are not funny and try to pursue other talents.

***hhh81*** · 07-28-2019, 06:24 PM

07-28-2019, 05:39 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: It's not "just a joke" if it's an actual attitude held by people who have the ability to actually enforce policy based on that prejudice. It's also not "a joke" if you're unwilling to even say that it was a joke, and instead double down on your garbage behavior and cry about people being mean to you for your bigoted ideas because they just didn't get your humor.

Honestly I feel like the number of good members you could lose if they feel like none of the leadership has their backs when somebody makes them feel unwelcome over race/gender/orientation/whatever definitely outweighs the odd prejudiced asshole here and there who throws a fit and leaves because nobody likes their bad sexist jokes.

If you can't be funny without mocking a marginalized community, you should probably just accept that you are not funny and try to pursue other talents.

RT

Carbine · 07-28-2019, 06:47 PM

07-28-2019, 04:35 PMztevans Wrote: He never once responded to the initial public thread to "clarify his stance." I can't speak for any other rooms, but in Russia he compared listening to women commentators to watching cooking shows with eight-year-old chefs, as if being a woman made them equally qualified to announce a professional hockey game as to letting an eight-year-old run a restaurant. He said they, quote, "stumble and talk nonsense" as if we live in a world where Don Cherry isn't heralded for exactly that. #BunchOfJerks. At no point did on-air chemistry come up, because God forbid that might have given him reason to think there will one day be female announcers that meet his standards once they have time to develop that chemistry with their colleagues.

Ok.

First, a quote that I’m sure some of you will find humorous. A teacher I had in high school said this to me after I made a false assumption and it’s stuck with me ever since.

Quote:Never assume. It makes an ass of both of us.

Clearly, I have made some false assumptions about what happened here.

I am not in any rooms with PenKnight. I only have the TD thread and the discord snippet that was included, as well as my PMs with him. I assumed this was a witch hunt over a poorly received joke. Clearly that is not the case. I also made assumptions on his beliefs which I shouldn’t have done.

I trust Zach’s claims of what happened in the Russia discord, which obviously is in dispute of what I believed happened. I don’t need to see proof - whether or not I believe it doesn’t affect anyone. I also did notice PenKnights sig and thought it was odd, but now I recognize there might be some malicious intent behind it. At the very least, he’s playing the role of troll very well.

I am disappointed that PenKnight has gone this route, given his contributions to the site. This could have been handled so much better - by everyone.

I maintain my opinion that witch hunts in TD are detrimental to the league and that future issues such as this should be brought to HO’s attention for their judgement. I will not change my mind on that. Some things need to stay private.

Carbine · 07-28-2019, 06:59 PM

07-28-2019, 05:25 PMスウェグキング Wrote: Basically, dont joke about or say anything that can be offensive to any group of people in any way.

07-28-2019, 05:39 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: It's not "just a joke" if it's an actual attitude held by people who have the ability to actually enforce policy based on that prejudice. It's also not "a joke" if you're unwilling to even say that it was a joke, and instead double down on your garbage behavior and cry about people being mean to you for your bigoted ideas because they just didn't get your humor.

Honestly I feel like the number of good members you could lose if they feel like none of the leadership has their backs when somebody makes them feel unwelcome over race/gender/orientation/whatever definitely outweighs the odd prejudiced asshole here and there who throws a fit and leaves because nobody likes their bad sexist jokes.

If you can't be funny without mocking a marginalized community, you should probably just accept that you are not funny and try to pursue other talents.

You can’t joke without risking offending someone. However, doubling down on your beliefs when it has been made very clear that the audience is not receptive is not a recipe for success. Personally, I find dark or shock humour funny. I just do. It doesn’t mean my beliefs align with what I find funny.

GeckoeyGecko · 07-28-2019, 07:12 PM

07-28-2019, 06:47 PMCarbine Wrote: First, a quote that I’m sure some of you will find humorous. A teacher I had in high school said this to me after I made a false assumption and it’s stuck with me ever since.

Quote:Never assume. It makes an ass of both of us.

no carbine u silly

the proper quote is

Quote:when u assume it makes an ass of u and me

smh my head

Grapehead · 07-28-2019, 07:14 PM

07-28-2019, 07:12 PMGeckoeyGecko Wrote:
07-28-2019, 06:47 PMCarbine Wrote: First, a quote that I’m sure some of you will find humorous. A teacher I had in high school said this to me after I made a false assumption and it’s stuck with me ever since.

no carbine u silly

the proper quote is

Quote:when u assume it makes an ass of u and me

smh my head

Tell the GM chat I say e

DeletedAtUserRequest · 07-28-2019, 07:14 PM

even if the recent events are subjective or debatable..not 1 member yet of the league hierarchy has come into the thread and acknowledged the importance they place on member protection and high site standards.. 2 things that a portion of the people want to hear about and 2 things that should be easy for the top guys to champion.

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Carbine · 07-28-2019, 07:27 PM

07-28-2019, 07:12 PMGeckoeyGecko Wrote:
07-28-2019, 06:47 PMCarbine Wrote: First, a quote that I’m sure some of you will find humorous. A teacher I had in high school said this to me after I made a false assumption and it’s stuck with me ever since.

no carbine u silly

the proper quote is

Quote:when u assume it makes an ass of u and me

smh my head

For once I think you might be right lol.

Grapehead · 07-28-2019, 07:28 PM

07-28-2019, 07:14 PMMike Izzy Wrote: even if the recent events are subjective or debatable..not 1 member yet of the league hierarchy has come into the thread and acknowledged the importance they place on member protection and high site standards.. 2 things that a portion of the people want to hear about and 2 things that should be easy for the top guys to champion.

I don't think any of the 16 SHL GMs fail to acknowledge the importance of high site standards. Secondly, all 16 GMs have not made an appearance in these TD threads, so why is muzzling all 16 GMs the solution? I'd encourage everyone to report specific instances that they deem to be improper behaviour to the head office, but let's not act like the GMs at large are out to scare people away.

DeletedAtUserRequest · 07-28-2019, 07:29 PM

07-28-2019, 07:28 PMGrapehead Wrote:
07-28-2019, 07:14 PMMike Izzy Wrote: even if the recent events are subjective or debatable..not 1 member yet of the league hierarchy has come into the thread and acknowledged the importance they place on member protection and high site standards.. 2 things that a portion of the people want to hear about and 2 things that should be easy for the top guys to champion.

I don't think any of the 16 SHL GMs fail to acknowledge the importance of high site standards. Secondly, all 16 GMs have not made an appearance in these TD threads, so why is muzzling all 16 GMs the solution? I'd encourage everyone to report specific instances that they deem to be improper behaviour to the head office, but let's not act like the GMs at large are out to scare people away.

i was refering to the people on the site that can make policy. Like HO and the site owners.

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Grapehead · 07-28-2019, 07:32 PM

07-28-2019, 07:29 PMMike Izzy Wrote:
07-28-2019, 07:28 PMGrapehead Wrote: I don't think any of the 16 SHL GMs fail to acknowledge the importance of high site standards. Secondly, all 16 GMs have not made an appearance in these TD threads, so why is muzzling all 16 GMs the solution? I'd encourage everyone to report specific instances that they deem to be improper behaviour to the head office, but let's not act like the GMs at large are out to scare people away.

i was refering to the people on the site that can make policy. Like HO and the site owners.

Oh okay, fair enough

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