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Clint Eastwood · 08-07-2018, 10:56 AM

If TOR makes the playoffs then York should get MVP, if not then 44 probs.

ArGarBarGar · 08-07-2018, 11:30 AM

08-06-2018, 10:00 PMAvakael Wrote: I still think, by the way, that we should be splitting the Stevens into offensive and defensive defencemen awards. It's kinda silly that this is the only award defencemen are ever considered for (other than the occasional lucky Jesster nominee), and forwards have about 5 or 6 to share.

Meh. With that you get an award for the highest scoring defenseman (almost always) and an award based on who knows what. It would be even harder to determine than the Dar.

What makes a defenseman the best defensive defenseman? Hits? Shot blocks (heavily determined by shots the team faces)? PK time? +/- (which is heavily dependent on team and usage)?

Alonzo Garbanzo Final Tallies (Among Defensemen):
2nd in Goals (208), All-Time Assists Leader (765)*, All-Time Points Leader (973), 3rd in Hits (2587), All-Time Blocked Shots Leader (1882)*
*All-Time Leader Among All Skaters
Player Profile | Update Thread
[Image: IeEV7Iv.png]

Avakael · 08-07-2018, 12:49 PM

08-07-2018, 11:30 AMArGarBarGar Wrote:
08-06-2018, 10:00 PMAvakael Wrote: I still think, by the way, that we should be splitting the Stevens into offensive and defensive defencemen awards. It's kinda silly that this is the only award defencemen are ever considered for (other than the occasional lucky Jesster nominee), and forwards have about 5 or 6 to share.

Meh. With that you get an award for the highest scoring defenseman (almost always) and an award based on who knows what. It would be even harder to determine than the Dar.

What makes a defenseman the best defensive defenseman? Hits? Shot blocks (heavily determined by shots the team faces)? PK time? +/- (which is heavily dependent on team and usage)?

My personal preference is +/- as the most important stat, as that's our primary goals against reference. I'd also favour a low PIM as a high priority, which marginalizes hits. SB, PKM and hits minus hits taken become the general tiebreakers.

ArGarBarGar · 08-07-2018, 01:14 PM

08-07-2018, 12:49 PMAvakael Wrote:
08-07-2018, 11:30 AMArGarBarGar Wrote:
08-06-2018, 10:00 PMAvakael Wrote: I still think, by the way, that we should be splitting the Stevens into offensive and defensive defencemen awards. It's kinda silly that this is the only award defencemen are ever considered for (other than the occasional lucky Jesster nominee), and forwards have about 5 or 6 to share.

Meh. With that you get an award for the highest scoring defenseman (almost always) and an award based on who knows what. It would be even harder to determine than the Dar.

What makes a defenseman the best defensive defenseman? Hits? Shot blocks (heavily determined by shots the team faces)? PK time? +/- (which is heavily dependent on team and usage)?
My personal preference is +/- as the most important stat, as that's our primary goals against reference. I'd also favour a low PIM as a high priority, which marginalizes hits. SB, PKM and hits minus hits taken become the general tiebreakers.

But that doesn't take into account linemates, quality of team, quality of goaltender, or anything. It isn't a valuable metric and requires a lot of context to be used in any meaningful way. And even then it doesn't demonstrate the value of a player.

Alonzo Garbanzo Final Tallies (Among Defensemen):
2nd in Goals (208), All-Time Assists Leader (765)*, All-Time Points Leader (973), 3rd in Hits (2587), All-Time Blocked Shots Leader (1882)*
*All-Time Leader Among All Skaters
Player Profile | Update Thread
[Image: IeEV7Iv.png]

DeletedAtUserRequest · 08-07-2018, 01:25 PM

08-07-2018, 01:14 PMArGarBarGar Wrote:
08-07-2018, 12:49 PMAvakael Wrote:
08-07-2018, 11:30 AMArGarBarGar Wrote:
08-06-2018, 10:00 PMAvakael Wrote: I still think, by the way, that we should be splitting the Stevens into offensive and defensive defencemen awards. It's kinda silly that this is the only award defencemen are ever considered for (other than the occasional lucky Jesster nominee), and forwards have about 5 or 6 to share.

Meh. With that you get an award for the highest scoring defenseman (almost always) and an award based on who knows what. It would be even harder to determine than the Dar.

What makes a defenseman the best defensive defenseman? Hits? Shot blocks (heavily determined by shots the team faces)? PK time? +/- (which is heavily dependent on team and usage)?
My personal preference is +/- as the most important stat, as that's our primary goals against reference. I'd also favour a low PIM as a high priority, which marginalizes hits. SB, PKM and hits minus hits taken become the general tiebreakers.

But that doesn't take into account linemates, quality of team, quality of goaltender, or anything. It isn't a valuable metric and requires a lot of context to be used in any meaningful way. And even then it doesn't demonstrate the value of a player.

but in honesty you can make that 'team influenced stat' case for just about every stat available to us.... even total points.

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ml002 · 08-07-2018, 01:27 PM

A note to those thinking Richan: Oisin Fletcher has seen the largest point increase from last season (38 points to 57)

Credit to Copenhagen, Wasty, FlappyGiraffe, InciteHysteria, and caltroit_red_flames
[Image: MM4nqx6.png]

ArGarBarGar · 08-07-2018, 01:47 PM

08-07-2018, 01:25 PMMike Izzy Wrote:
08-07-2018, 01:14 PMArGarBarGar Wrote:
08-07-2018, 12:49 PMAvakael Wrote:
08-07-2018, 11:30 AMArGarBarGar Wrote:
08-06-2018, 10:00 PMAvakael Wrote: I still think, by the way, that we should be splitting the Stevens into offensive and defensive defencemen awards. It's kinda silly that this is the only award defencemen are ever considered for (other than the occasional lucky Jesster nominee), and forwards have about 5 or 6 to share.

Meh. With that you get an award for the highest scoring defenseman (almost always) and an award based on who knows what. It would be even harder to determine than the Dar.

What makes a defenseman the best defensive defenseman? Hits? Shot blocks (heavily determined by shots the team faces)? PK time? +/- (which is heavily dependent on team and usage)?
My personal preference is +/- as the most important stat, as that's our primary goals against reference. I'd also favour a low PIM as a high priority, which marginalizes hits. SB, PKM and hits minus hits taken become the general tiebreakers.

But that doesn't take into account linemates, quality of team, quality of goaltender, or anything. It isn't a valuable metric and requires a lot of context to be used in any meaningful way. And even then it doesn't demonstrate the value of a player.

but in honesty you can make that 'team influenced stat' case for just about every stat available to us.... even total points.

Plus minus is the most heavily dependent on outside factors, and the only one that does not require action for a player to benefit from it. You have to explicitly do something to score a goal, register an assist, make a hit, block a shot. You don't have to be involved at all to be out there for a goal for or goal against.

Alonzo Garbanzo Final Tallies (Among Defensemen):
2nd in Goals (208), All-Time Assists Leader (765)*, All-Time Points Leader (973), 3rd in Hits (2587), All-Time Blocked Shots Leader (1882)*
*All-Time Leader Among All Skaters
Player Profile | Update Thread
[Image: IeEV7Iv.png]

Beaver · 08-07-2018, 02:04 PM

Slowpoke · 08-07-2018, 02:28 PM

Vasily Horvat for Aiden Richan Award

DeletedAtUserRequest · 08-08-2018, 09:40 PM

this should be an exciting show this year! the numbers across the board are not as extensive as seasons past...

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Slappydoodle · 08-08-2018, 10:15 PM

08-06-2018, 10:19 PM.bojo Wrote: Who does avakeal have to blow to get two defender awards

Well, I am on the awards committee these days......just saying........couldn't hurt.

That goes for a certain McBride potential nominee as well......

**.bojo** · 08-08-2018, 10:38 PM

08-08-2018, 10:15 PMSlappydoodle Wrote:
08-06-2018, 10:19 PM.bojo Wrote: Who does avakeal have to blow to get two defender awards

Well, I am on the awards committee these days......just saying........couldn't hurt.

That goes for a certain McBride potential nominee as well......

idk man. It's gonna take a lot of inches to win the mcbride now.

Slappydoodle · 08-08-2018, 10:47 PM

08-08-2018, 10:38 PM.bojo Wrote:
08-08-2018, 10:15 PMSlappydoodle Wrote:
08-06-2018, 10:19 PM.bojo Wrote: Who does avakeal have to blow to get two defender awards

Well, I am on the awards committee these days......just saying........couldn't hurt.

That goes for a certain McBride potential nominee as well......

idk man. It's gonna take a lot of inches to win the mcbride now.

You could start firming up your chances for next season maybe?

Slappydoodle · 08-08-2018, 11:00 PM

I generally agree that all stats need to be looked at in context. Linemates and line settings can greatly affect just about every number we look at. Minutes played, special teams usage, there is no limit to how finely you can parse the numbers, if you are so inclined. No stat should be trivialized or dismissed. They all help define the larger picture. They just need to be analyzed Reliance on points for everything has been in favor for too long.

JumpierPegasus · 08-09-2018, 09:17 AM

Texas got a lot of rookies available for that Jesster like Essellem, and Petrikov, and O'Sullivan had a solid season on the skater side. All three were incredibly influential to us making the playoffs.

But I fear the awards committee is going to forget that WALTER HOBBS is a rookie goaltender who led a team that was expected to finish 7th in the West into 3rd and the playoffs posting a +.900 SV% behind an incredibly weak defense that consisted of a rookie dman, a 700TPE inactive, and a 400TPE inactive in the top 4. He played out of his gourde, a future multiple McBride winner imo

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