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***Patty*** · 07-13-2020, 04:29 PM

07-13-2020, 04:22 PMluketd Wrote:
07-13-2020, 04:16 PMNhamlet Wrote: Suddenly SHN is just propoganda for HO.

We are a free media network that gets no money from HO

Then why is SDCore broke eh?

teztify · 07-13-2020, 04:33 PM

07-13-2020, 04:19 PMSlashACM Wrote: Why expand, just put fourth lines in

Also lots of people donated money, I'm assuming some of it pays for servers but the rest should be used to hire index makers

I think you overestimate how much money the SHL has made from donations, and underestimate how much people's time is worth to them in the little free time they have outside of their real life coding jobs. According to the Donation Tracking sheet, we have about $300 right now after $40 is taken for hosting this month, and that's another $40 every two months or so. I wouldn't expect anyone to work for whatever pittance we could give off the remaining donations while making sure we reserve enough to keep the site running for the foreseeable future as well. My guess is it's not close to enough to expect to hire somebody to do paid work.

SlashACM · 07-13-2020, 04:36 PM

07-13-2020, 04:27 PMMike Izzy Wrote:
07-13-2020, 04:19 PMSlashACM Wrote: Why expand, just put fourth lines in

Also lots of people donated money, I'm assuming some of it pays for servers but the rest should be used to hire index makers

... let’s also have a ‘save the index’ donation marathon and use what ever is raised for the programmers

I mean id donate another 20 if it helped get an index

***DrunkenTeddy*** · 07-13-2020, 05:02 PM

07-13-2020, 04:19 PMSlashACM Wrote: Why expand, just put fourth lines in

Also lots of people donated money, I'm assuming some of it pays for servers but the rest should be used to hire index makers

None of it is going to people working on the index, if we paid someone to make it the cost would be in the thousands, we have people donating their time and doing it for free. The donated money is also not a ton, we have under $400 right now, and we want to upgrade to a new server that will cost about $30/month vs our current $20/month server, but a lot of my time is required for the move. It will happen but I'm dealing with some stuff right now, so I'll start on it soon, but not quite yet. We don't really have spare money to throw at a coder for the index, but we do have some people trying to put a new one together in their spare time.

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***luke*** · 07-13-2020, 05:05 PM

07-13-2020, 04:29 PMPatty Wrote:
07-13-2020, 04:22 PMluketd Wrote: We are a free media network that gets no money from HO
Then why is SDCore broke eh?

SDCore.... more like SDPoor

SlashACM · 07-13-2020, 05:15 PM

07-13-2020, 05:02 PMDrunkenTeddy Wrote:
07-13-2020, 04:19 PMSlashACM Wrote: Why expand, just put fourth lines in

Also lots of people donated money, I'm assuming some of it pays for servers but the rest should be used to hire index makers

None of it is going to people working on the index, if we paid someone to make it the cost would be in the thousands, we have people donating their time and doing it for free. The donated money is also not a ton, we have under $400 right now, and we want to upgrade to a new server that will cost about $30/month vs our current $20/month server, but a lot of my time is required for the move. It will happen but I'm dealing with some stuff right now, so I'll start on it soon, but not quite yet. We don't really have spare money to throw at a coder for the index, but we do have some people trying to put a new one together in their spare time.

Didn't realize it would be thousands, makes sense then. We have lots of talented coders on the site as well so hopefully they want to see a better index as well

Sean · 07-13-2020, 05:21 PM

Boooooooo

EDM All-Time Leader in Goals, Assists and Points

Mayuu · 07-13-2020, 05:31 PM

I'd love see my player having to move/traded/retire to keep the team I love being competitive, all for the grand cause of parity. A well managed team shouldn't suffer cause of other gm's incompetence.

Yay

RETIRED

Fitted2106 · 07-13-2020, 05:36 PM

Arent there any super rich ppl on shl?
Couldent they just donate 10k or something?

***Wally*** · 07-14-2020, 08:21 AM

07-13-2020, 05:31 PMMayuu Wrote: I'd love see my player having to move/traded/retire to keep the team I love being competitive, all for the grand cause of parity. A well managed team shouldn't suffer cause of other gm's incompetence.

Yay

All re-creates should be auto-drafted then basically. Okay.

Mayuu · 07-14-2020, 08:38 AM

07-14-2020, 08:21 AMWally Wrote:
07-13-2020, 05:31 PMMayuu Wrote: I'd love see my player having to move/traded/retire to keep the team I love being competitive, all for the grand cause of parity. A well managed team shouldn't suffer cause of other gm's incompetence.

Yay

All re-creates should be auto-drafted then basically. Okay.

Yeah because that's what I said?

I'm on a long term minimum contract because I want this team to do good and I can make money elsewhere. If other gm's can't entice their core players to take good deals why should other teams suffer?

Parity for the sake of parity is the worst about American sports.

RETIRED

***Wally*** · 07-14-2020, 09:58 PM

07-14-2020, 08:38 AMMayuu Wrote:
07-14-2020, 08:21 AMWally Wrote: All re-creates should be auto-drafted then basically. Okay.

Yeah because that's what I said?

I'm on a long term minimum contract because I want this team to do good and I can make money elsewhere. If other gm's can't entice their core players to take good deals why should other teams suffer?

Parity for the sake of parity is the worst about American sports.

So I gave this alot of thought today... versus going the snarky route, because this is the typical response when pressed with change in the locker room of enjoyment. Notice how I didn't say success.

The problem with your argument isn't even the fact that it doesn't compare apples to apples. It is the fact that you are trying to debate sim structure with a real world complaint. Parity for the sake of parity, I agree, can be bullshit. Before I divulge however, I want to say that I'm part of the Dragons organization... and have no desire to ever leave. Much like WBF has very much built a community within a community, Esa has done the same... as have other teams.

I think the GMs in our league have had it easier in working with the cap. Especially having experience in budgeting in other leagues as a GM. In my opinion, it isn't about helping shitty GMs. The onus is on HO to select suitable GMs that understand the logistics and can handle the expectations of a SIM league. At this very moment, I think the class of GMs on hand are great for the most part. The tightening of budgets isn't to gift wrap a team to a less than successful organization. It is however meant to level a foundational starting ground.

So when you say... parity is what sucks in American sports. That is your opinion... Baseball typically sees the same 75% of the teams in the post-season season after season. Which ones are they... the ones who have the deepest pocket books. Look at the Premier League... Same. Season after season. So what about parity sucks in American sports? That a GM in the NHL has continuous strategizing and planning season by season to maintain high levels of youth and veterans... to stretch every dollar? Tough decisions have to be made to be good at your job. Look at the rise and the fall of the Blackhawks, albeit they haven't launched into a re-build... In order to meet the demands of their high end players they had to pay. This killed their depth, in addition to a few shit trades. So your opinion would be to lift a cap or adjust it so all those who enjoy playing in Chicago could have stayed long term?

Next point being... this is a sim league. A "Good Deal" isn't a "Good Deal" if all veterans make it a norm. It is now expected... and it is expected of a GM to their player. In my opinion there should be tightening of a budget and less discounts. It is our job as players to earn TPE and build in the ability where we can be best utilized on the ice or build to the liking of a GM. Some making a race of scraping that TPE... which is great... because it makes every player better, for the most part... But in turn we hardly see an increasing price to pay for a high-caliber player, just an expectation that they take minimum.

What some fail to understand or acknowledge is it is a completely different role as a GM... It is their job to build a team and a community to keep/entice players to want to be a part of their organization. To manage a roster, build efficiencies and future development... all under a budget. A budget which is significantly lax when it comes to pushing tough decisions. In other leagues I belong to, you don't have the ability to have a full roster of 1st and 2nd liners... and not give up somewhere. In the SBA... you typically can have a big 3 and possibly a fourth with a paired rookie... but then typically are lacking depth. Or you have a killer Big 3 with depth in the support roles. In the EFL, you have to plan for cycling or you run into an imbalance of veterans when their contracts start to bloat and you are forced to make trades or have less than stellar quality and support positions. What I'm trying to say is it is a constant. The expectation of high-end players is taking a "good deal" instead of making a GM work the numbers. I personally think the home town discount is the worst thing for the league, when regression barely has an impact. The window is just far too wide.

I could go on and on and on... but we have discord. Team locker rooms... where camaraderie are amazing. I happen to play for Corey in Newfoundland and Esa in the SHL... Both locker rooms are amazing and hope I have a long career with Calgary. At the same time, I hope this league makes the cap more competitive and it is going to be about more than just a dollar value. It is about line expectation, league growth, salary tiers, hometown discounts and regression. To anyone (even any teammate of mine) that says well if I can't stay with my team then chances are I wouldn't be active... Well think about what keeps you active. If it is the locker room, a GM doesn't have to kick you out of a Discord. If it is because you want to win, control your cards... Meaning ask for NTCs... Test FA... Communicate to your GM so you don't get surprised with cap shortages and this list can go on and on.

Parity does suck if it is just for the fact of instantly creating it. Parity is good if it is based on foundational ability. If a GM sucks... that won't change if they don't work at it. Regardless of what caps and structures are set at. Build a community around the team at hand, even if it changes from time to time... not the other way around. That is the sign of a good GM.

teztify · 07-15-2020, 01:43 AM

I think there's this sort of lapse in logic in criticizing the strive for parity (particularly by lowering the cap) by suggesting it's just a helping hand to bad GMs who haven't been able to build a team. Lowering the cap makes GMing harder. Bad GMs, to the extent we have them, might get a boost of like an extra player or two initially, but then it becomes the norm and sort of regresses back to the mean over time. So if they're a bad GM, they'll have an even harder time, because the job is "harder" with a tighter cap.

Speaking as someone who was a GM for an awful long time - if you're confident you're a good GM, or confident your team's GM is good, then be confident they can still be good in a league environment that encourages activity across all 16 teams, which allows our league to grow. If they can't keep their team at the top of the league because the cap went down, maybe they were never that good.

The idea of parity isn't "for parity's sake", and it's not to help GMs who are bad, and it's not to punish teams who think they're targets. It's to try and foster activity across as many roster spots in the league as possible. Because the job of Head Office is to grow the league, not ensure the survival of dynasties - that's the GM's job.

Fostering that activity is, in my opinion, harder when parity doesn't exist, particularly following a sim engine change to FHM which deals in extremes much more than STHS did, because you wind up with players on teams who miss the playoffs year after year, and find their season ending early, and find themselves without much to do on the site and no reason to be active through the post-season. Equally that's why the idea of simply adding a 4th line, while my initial position, might not be adequate. I play on a 4th line in juniors, and it's fun and a novelty for now. But it won't be in 2 seasons when I'm still on it. It won't be when someone is stuck on it on their SHL team that nobody ever leaves because the cap means everyone can stay.

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