I'll get a piece of the "the time(s) I have been traded" stories, and talk about the trades that brought me to Toronto.
The first two trades have very little to do with me directly, but they put the pieces in place. The first is between Toronto and the San Francisco Pride in S51.
Receives:
Bobby Bobcalf
S53 SFP 2nd [Traded to MIN]
Receives:
S53 TOR 3rd [Trevor Johnson]
I hate to pick on somebody who's not here anymore, but when people talk about how bad San Fran was under Grapehead, they're not just talking about drafting Esso 1 OA in S52. They're also talking about trades like this and the event that took place around that 3rd. Bobby Bobcalf was rostered for a few seasons in Toronto, and has now ended up back with the Pride. If he was ever active, I am not aware of it. In letting go of a 2nd in exchange for a 3rd, they basically paid Toronto to take Bobcalf away. From where I'm sitting, it doesn't make sense. If there's somebody who has more insight, I'll gladly eat those words. However, the TOR S53rd pick was almost disastrous for SFP. Trevor Johnson was a Scarecrow that was semi-active through his first season and a half. A couple of days after the draft, San Fran reached out to St. Louis management to indicate that they might not be able to sign Johnson after drafting him due to the salary cap, despite having resigned meme legend Cleo Green (23 TPE after S52 regression) to another season. They eventually traded Johnson to Buffalo, who signed him for S53 and then dropped him due to inactivity.
The second is between the Los Angeles Panthers and Toronto in the off-season between S51 and S52.
Receives:
Kenji Yoshimura
S54 LAP 1st [Traded to MIN]
S55 LAP 4th* [Became S56; PASS]
* = Conditional on Reddit Draft.
Receives:
Mikhail Lokitonov ($1M Retained to total contract of $4M)
LA traded a ransom for ml's retiring player, Mikhail Lokitonov. This was the tail end of the STHS era, when players like Loki could live forever at 1k TPE and still make a difference. LAP was, at the time, still heavily competitive with every intention of staying there. It worked out fairly well for LA; Lokitonov tied for second place scorer on the team in the regular season, with 44 points and more goals than Max Mauldin. The success didn't translate as well to the Playoffs, where they were beaten in the Wild Card Round by Calgary.
Meanwhile, Toronto got a solid season out of the retiring Kenji Yoshimura and then traded the S54 1st to MIN. We'll get to that in a bit.
The next trade actually involves me directly. It's a classic "Pre-Draft Move-Up" trade.
Receives:
S52 BUF 1st [Danny Marston]
Receives:
S54 MIN 1st [Emilia Bergman]
Looking back, maybe there was somebody who looked at that trade and said "Yep, they're going for Blitz", but I highly doubt it. @"jfisherr" said something about it in the St. Louis locker room when the trade first went through, but I didn't put any stock in it since no one had messaged me. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they had been hoping to get one of the people that was drafted ahead of me (perhaps Rindiee or Geekusoid). I had been in the strange recruiting Discord that McZ was running in the name of the Minnesota Chiefs, but I had been talking very seriously and excitedly to Calgary, and was expecting to go at 10th to the Dragons. Still, I can't complain too much. By a strange transitive property, I roughly equal Bergman, and I'll take it as a compliment.
The next piece of the puzzle that led me to Toronto was almost a whole season later. This trade about a week before the S53 draft has nothing to do with me, but it's important.
Receives:
Bobby Watson
Bob Bergen
Stirling MacTavish
S53 NOL 3rd [Traded to TOR]
S53 NOL 5th [PASS]
S53 TBB 6th [PASS]
Receives:
S55 MIN 1st [Conner Hutton]
S56 MIN 2nd [Zbynek Dobrovsky]
S57 MIN 2nd [TBD]
Yeah, this is a rough trade. Bobby Watson has been retired through free agency, granted I think they got three or four seasons out of him. Bob Bergen's user, Nobody, retired him and recreated in S53. Stirling MacTavish is a 588 TPE inactive that, as far as I know and can recall, only commented in the Minnesota LR to say that they were going inactive. The S53 3rd was traded away, and the other two late round picks were passed. To say nothing of the value in overdoo and iStegosauruz. Maybe I'm missing some of the value that made it worth it for Gibbles, but I'm even more confused by this trade now than I was then.
I mentioned that I wasn't expecting to be drafted to Minnesota. As time went on in S52, I felt like I was constantly waiting to get comfortable and for it to click. I look for familiarity in new places. I can do friendly rivalry and ribbing, but there were times when it felt like I was the odd-man-out. I like SpartanGibbles, Mutedfaith, JMacNCheese, and a lot of the other people that were there, but I didn't really know how to talk to them all the time. It led to a lot of frustration and anxiety for me going into the S52 off-season, which I was trying to figure out how to put into words properly when this trade rolled around. I'm not proud of how I acted in this situation and how it panned out, and if I could do it again, I'd say something earlier and try to keep the discomfort from boiling over. In my head, the trade very quickly became a very negative conclusion that wasn't fair to anyone. It became clear that I had to get out of Minnesota.
Receives:
Danny Marston
S53 NOL 3rd [Braden Lowrie]
Jack Klompus, Toast, seems like a really good person and player. It seems like Minnesota got their person there. Separa Borro, Lyezech, is inactive now, but was really cool to talk to when I had the opportunity. Braden Lowrie is inactive and was dropped a season ago by Toronto, but he was picked up by the Kelowna Knights for a 5th SMJHL season. At 298 TPE, I don't imagine he'll be picked up by a SHL team, but who knows.
Going into the trade, Gibbles asked me for a list of destinations. NOLA was obvious for the St. Louis connection; Nic, Joe, Fuzz, and Slash helped me get started through in the league through St. Louis and Team USA, and playing with them was really appealing. Toronto had Tron from my draft class who I had gotten to know a bit, and ml and Squall were St. Louis teammates and Mika is alumni. Zapo was actually my line mate for the Scarecrows at the time and I really like playing with him. I think I messaged Gibbles a little before noon, and by 2:30, I was in the Toronto LR getting to meet everybody else on the team.
So that's the story. It took a while to get there, but in the end, I think I've ended up in the right place for me. We're a tight-knit group in Toronto, with our love of graphics, food, and pets and our constant support for each other. It feels like a real life team, like I could just as easily play a game and have drinks after with everybody even though we're spread around the US and Europe. Everybody who's active in Toronto chat has bought in to what we're going to be, now more than ever. We're still growing, still have a ways to go yet, but we'll get there. I'm looking forward to being there every step of the way.
Quite an interesting and complex story, I don't think I've ever looked into trades that much. ML definitely did a good job (as usual) to bring you to TOR. Happy to have you on the team
I can offer some insight into some of these things.
As for scouting in your draft, I can confirm that I actually did have a different player planned at the pick we took you at. I was hoping to snipe Geek at that point to create a goalie tandem as I thought FHM would value good goalies a lot more than we have seen. I also was sick during most of the run up that season while being Anaheim Head GM so I didn't get as good a read on many of the people. I was mostly focused on recovering from the strange McZ draftee server and getting my management group in focus. I don't think I got to talk to many people prior to that draft outside of some more general statements in the draftee server. I think Muted was the only one who I had cemented into their spot prior to draft happening. I had heard good things from other people about you and your player so I figured it was worth taking the risk. We needed top tier forwards once Geek was taken by WPG and your name seemed to be the best one for the spot.
I can say now that the Watson/Bergen /Etc trade was probably my worst trade as a GM. Looking back now I wouldn't have made the deal, but I can explain the thoughts going through my head to explain why I made the deal at the time.
The first thing was that this was made right before the swap to FHM. I vastly underestimated how much the gap between top teams and bottom teams would be in the new engine. The season before we ended up 7th in the conference after losing a 1700 TPE center and a roughly 1K Forward but not being far out of the playoffs. In-fact for a few seasons we keep just missing the playoffs so it seemed like we were a lot closer in the STHS system. My original plan for the team was not full rebuild but to try and retool and get into the playoffs while people built up TPE. This would have made trading the picks worth less if they were not lottery/higher 2nds(This also applies to the trade of 1sts with Buffalo. I was hoping to be a fringe playoff team, thus making the picks worth less). Sadly that plan did not pan out. 2 problems that killed that plan was the reduced playoff spots and the smackdown FHM gave bad teams. I can admit I didn't think we would have such a drastic change with FHM that we saw. That first season made me completely rethink my strategy as a GM at the SHL level. We also proceeded to have 1 player not resign with the team, 1 demand a trade out abruptly, and our other big forward prospect go IA shortly after making the jump. Alone these things might now have hurt as much, but combined with the earlier losses when I took over, it quickly made the "be a fringe team and add pieces" strategy no longer viable like it was in STHS(For those who were not around for the previous sim engine, you could have 1-2 star players drag your team into the playoffs kicking and screaming).
I wanted to bring Watson back as he would immediately be my 3rd highest TPE forward at the time(and 3rd forward over 1K). We had almost no active forwards on the team outside of Fever, Drodger, and myself so I wanted to bring some talent in and not go complete tank. All of the other active forwards were in the J at the time. Watson was also a former MIN player and I was also hoping I might be able to convince them to become active again with a return to the franchise. Sadly their return did not pan out and they had horrible seasons in FHM. With the engine swap, their value was definitely not worth what I paid for them and that became apparent as the seasons went on until they got dropped and auto-retired.
Bergen was just an unfortunate circumstance. He was a 1K+ D who I was bringing in to fill a roster hole behind Segi, Leppy, and Emond until we could get some new talent drafted and called up. Then out of the blue he returned and retired his player so we got only the 1 season out of him I believe. Similar to Watson, Bergen was a black hole for stats and it was baffling to quite a few GM's how bad he was that season compared to previous performances.
MacT I had interacted with before but was not expecting much honestly. Part of the deal was that with 4th lines going away, NOLA didn't have the space for him on their roster. I saw a potential value in adding him in the short term. He wasn't completely IA at the time, but sadly IRL got in the way for him. At worst I figured he could fill the 3rd line for a while for me and if he stayed active and earning he would be a decent 2nd liner for the time for us. He is still on the team currently, filling a 3rd line role while we wait for more prospects to make the jump. Ironically he probably has done the most for the team in the sim of the 3 players we gained.
As for the picks, they were basically just extra's that NOLA didn't need/couldn't afford to draft with and I figured why not add them in case we find some late gems while scouting for that draft. Sadly we didn't find anything worth it for us at those spots when the draft came.
In the end I was at at least happy to get you to a new home you felt better in. I can understand not every LR fits every person in the SHL. I never want to hold onto a player just to spite them either. I think we both got off on the wrong foot as a GM/Player perspective so I don't blame yourself. I remember putting my foot in my mouth in out first interaction as well. But I have been happy to see you get more jobs in the league and it's always great interacting with you even if you are not in the MIN system. I am glad we were able to get Toast through this whole trade tree as he has been a big part of the MIN LR. Borro I knew from my connections in Anaheim and I figured would be a serviceable back-up for Tegernako. They flip between IA and not and pop into the LR on occasion as well but they serve the role we need them too.
10-18-2020, 12:29 AMSpartanGibbles Wrote: I can offer some insight into some of these things.
As for scouting in your draft, I can confirm that I actually did have a different player planned at the pick we took you at. I was hoping to snipe Geek at that point to create a goalie tandem as I thought FHM would value good goalies a lot more than we have seen. I also was sick during most of the run up that season while being Anaheim Head GM so I didn't get as good a read on many of the people. I was mostly focused on recovering from the strange McZ draftee server and getting my management group in focus. I don't think I got to talk to many people prior to that draft outside of some more general statements in the draftee server. I think Muted was the only one who I had cemented into their spot prior to draft happening. I had heard good things from other people about you and your player so I figured it was worth taking the risk. We needed top tier forwards once Geek was taken by WPG and your name seemed to be the best one for the spot.
I can say now that the Watson/Bergen /Etc trade was probably my worst trade as a GM. Looking back now I wouldn't have made the deal, but I can explain the thoughts going through my head to explain why I made the deal at the time.
The first thing was that this was made right before the swap to FHM. I vastly underestimated how much the gap between top teams and bottom teams would be in the new engine. The season before we ended up 7th in the conference after losing a 1700 TPE center and a roughly 1K Forward but not being far out of the playoffs. In-fact for a few seasons we keep just missing the playoffs so it seemed like we were a lot closer in the STHS system. My original plan for the team was not full rebuild but to try and retool and get into the playoffs while people built up TPE. This would have made trading the picks worth less if they were not lottery/higher 2nds(This also applies to the trade of 1sts with Buffalo. I was hoping to be a fringe playoff team, thus making the picks worth less). Sadly that plan did not pan out. 2 problems that killed that plan was the reduced playoff spots and the smackdown FHM gave bad teams. I can admit I didn't think we would have such a drastic change with FHM that we saw. That first season made me completely rethink my strategy as a GM at the SHL level. We also proceeded to have 1 player not resign with the team, 1 demand a trade out abruptly, and our other big forward prospect go IA shortly after making the jump. Alone these things might now have hurt as much, but combined with the earlier losses when I took over, it quickly made the "be a fringe team and add pieces" strategy no longer viable like it was in STHS(For those who were not around for the previous sim engine, you could have 1-2 star players drag your team into the playoffs kicking and screaming).
I wanted to bring Watson back as he would immediately be my 3rd highest TPE forward at the time(and 3rd forward over 1K). We had almost no active forwards on the team outside of Fever, Drodger, and myself so I wanted to bring some talent in and not go complete tank. All of the other active forwards were in the J at the time. Watson was also a former MIN player and I was also hoping I might be able to convince them to become active again with a return to the franchise. Sadly their return did not pan out and they had horrible seasons in FHM. With the engine swap, their value was definitely not worth what I paid for them and that became apparent as the seasons went on until they got dropped and auto-retired.
Bergen was just an unfortunate circumstance. He was a 1K+ D who I was bringing in to fill a roster hole behind Segi, Leppy, and Emond until we could get some new talent drafted and called up. Then out of the blue he returned and retired his player so we got only the 1 season out of him I believe. Similar to Watson, Bergen was a black hole for stats and it was baffling to quite a few GM's how bad he was that season compared to previous performances.
MacT I had interacted with before but was not expecting much honestly. Part of the deal was that with 4th lines going away, NOLA didn't have the space for him on their roster. I saw a potential value in adding him in the short term. He wasn't completely IA at the time, but sadly IRL got in the way for him. At worst I figured he could fill the 3rd line for a while for me and if he stayed active and earning he would be a decent 2nd liner for the time for us. He is still on the team currently, filling a 3rd line role while we wait for more prospects to make the jump. Ironically he probably has done the most for the team in the sim of the 3 players we gained.
As for the picks, they were basically just extra's that NOLA didn't need/couldn't afford to draft with and I figured why not add them in case we find some late gems while scouting for that draft. Sadly we didn't find anything worth it for us at those spots when the draft came.
In the end I was at at least happy to get you to a new home you felt better in. I can understand not every LR fits every person in the SHL. I never want to hold onto a player just to spite them either. I think we both got off on the wrong foot as a GM/Player perspective so I don't blame yourself. I remember putting my foot in my mouth in out first interaction as well. But I have been happy to see you get more jobs in the league and it's always great interacting with you even if you are not in the MIN system. I am glad we were able to get Toast through this whole trade tree as he has been a big part of the MIN LR. Borro I knew from my connections in Anaheim and I figured would be a serviceable back-up for Tegernako. They flip between IA and not and pop into the LR on occasion as well but they serve the role we need them too.
I'm sorry if I came off too critical. It's definitely a fair assessment to say that it would have been a better trade (if still a little lop-sided) in STHS. It's a common thing that a lot of the GMs with more experience in both than me have observed, that FHM is equally cruel in different ways and was especially bad in that first season. A lot of what made it really bad was RNG and happenstance, and if it hadn't happened that way and had lasted a good four seasons, it might have been a good trade on both sides.
I think everybody wanted Geek; can't blame 'em either, he's an awesome human. In the end, I stayed in that scouting server and answered all of the questions (that McZ quiz still haunts me occasionally), which was a greenlight and sign of interest. I could have left, probably should have because of the inane bullshit, but I kind of wanted to see how it played out. I was and still am honored that you took a chance.
For what it's worth, I really, really, really had to think about bringing up my concerns. Like, sitting at the bottom of the driveway, lights on, radio off after work thinking multiple times in the couple of weeks ahead of that. I felt bad that I wasn't fitting, and I knew it was a me problem. That's the biggest thing: you, Mutedfaith, JMac, Segi, and Fever were the people I talked to the most and y'all are awesome people and I have nothing but good things to say. There were a few people that I could only take in small doses, but we were on different schedules so it wasn't too bad. I don't remember you sticking your foot in your mouth; it seemed more awkward on both of our parts because it was our first conversation and it was about my contract, and that's always tough. The original plan was to give it until my contract was up before making a decision one way or another. Ultimately, the trade and fallout just shoved in my face that I had shifted at some point from "it'll get better" to "if it doesn't get better, I'll leave when my contract is up" to "I'm leaving when my contract is up". Having that thought a week before the season is over is one thing. Having that thought before the first of three seasons is over is unfair to everybody involved.
Thank you for helping me get to where I am. I don't know if I've ever actually said that. I'm glad you got Toast. I haven't interacted too much, but they seem cool and if they're the right person and have bought in to the organization, that's all the better. I'm also happy to hear that Lyezech still pops in from time to time. It's been great getting to know you a bit more through the J Head Office and recipes in drama threads.
10-18-2020, 12:29 AMSpartanGibbles Wrote: I can offer some insight into some of these things.
As for scouting in your draft, I can confirm that I actually did have a different player planned at the pick we took you at. I was hoping to snipe Geek at that point to create a goalie tandem as I thought FHM would value good goalies a lot more than we have seen. I also was sick during most of the run up that season while being Anaheim Head GM so I didn't get as good a read on many of the people. I was mostly focused on recovering from the strange McZ draftee server and getting my management group in focus. I don't think I got to talk to many people prior to that draft outside of some more general statements in the draftee server. I think Muted was the only one who I had cemented into their spot prior to draft happening. I had heard good things from other people about you and your player so I figured it was worth taking the risk. We needed top tier forwards once Geek was taken by WPG and your name seemed to be the best one for the spot.
I can say now that the Watson/Bergen /Etc trade was probably my worst trade as a GM. Looking back now I wouldn't have made the deal, but I can explain the thoughts going through my head to explain why I made the deal at the time.
The first thing was that this was made right before the swap to FHM. I vastly underestimated how much the gap between top teams and bottom teams would be in the new engine. The season before we ended up 7th in the conference after losing a 1700 TPE center and a roughly 1K Forward but not being far out of the playoffs. In-fact for a few seasons we keep just missing the playoffs so it seemed like we were a lot closer in the STHS system. My original plan for the team was not full rebuild but to try and retool and get into the playoffs while people built up TPE. This would have made trading the picks worth less if they were not lottery/higher 2nds(This also applies to the trade of 1sts with Buffalo. I was hoping to be a fringe playoff team, thus making the picks worth less). Sadly that plan did not pan out. 2 problems that killed that plan was the reduced playoff spots and the smackdown FHM gave bad teams. I can admit I didn't think we would have such a drastic change with FHM that we saw. That first season made me completely rethink my strategy as a GM at the SHL level. We also proceeded to have 1 player not resign with the team, 1 demand a trade out abruptly, and our other big forward prospect go IA shortly after making the jump. Alone these things might now have hurt as much, but combined with the earlier losses when I took over, it quickly made the "be a fringe team and add pieces" strategy no longer viable like it was in STHS(For those who were not around for the previous sim engine, you could have 1-2 star players drag your team into the playoffs kicking and screaming).
I wanted to bring Watson back as he would immediately be my 3rd highest TPE forward at the time(and 3rd forward over 1K). We had almost no active forwards on the team outside of Fever, Drodger, and myself so I wanted to bring some talent in and not go complete tank. All of the other active forwards were in the J at the time. Watson was also a former MIN player and I was also hoping I might be able to convince them to become active again with a return to the franchise. Sadly their return did not pan out and they had horrible seasons in FHM. With the engine swap, their value was definitely not worth what I paid for them and that became apparent as the seasons went on until they got dropped and auto-retired.
Bergen was just an unfortunate circumstance. He was a 1K+ D who I was bringing in to fill a roster hole behind Segi, Leppy, and Emond until we could get some new talent drafted and called up. Then out of the blue he returned and retired his player so we got only the 1 season out of him I believe. Similar to Watson, Bergen was a black hole for stats and it was baffling to quite a few GM's how bad he was that season compared to previous performances.
MacT I had interacted with before but was not expecting much honestly. Part of the deal was that with 4th lines going away, NOLA didn't have the space for him on their roster. I saw a potential value in adding him in the short term. He wasn't completely IA at the time, but sadly IRL got in the way for him. At worst I figured he could fill the 3rd line for a while for me and if he stayed active and earning he would be a decent 2nd liner for the time for us. He is still on the team currently, filling a 3rd line role while we wait for more prospects to make the jump. Ironically he probably has done the most for the team in the sim of the 3 players we gained.
As for the picks, they were basically just extra's that NOLA didn't need/couldn't afford to draft with and I figured why not add them in case we find some late gems while scouting for that draft. Sadly we didn't find anything worth it for us at those spots when the draft came.
In the end I was at at least happy to get you to a new home you felt better in. I can understand not every LR fits every person in the SHL. I never want to hold onto a player just to spite them either. I think we both got off on the wrong foot as a GM/Player perspective so I don't blame yourself. I remember putting my foot in my mouth in out first interaction as well. But I have been happy to see you get more jobs in the league and it's always great interacting with you even if you are not in the MIN system. I am glad we were able to get Toast through this whole trade tree as he has been a big part of the MIN LR. Borro I knew from my connections in Anaheim and I figured would be a serviceable back-up for Tegernako. They flip between IA and not and pop into the LR on occasion as well but they serve the role we need them too.
I'm sorry if I came off too critical. It's definitely a fair assessment to say that it would have been a better trade (if still a little lop-sided) in STHS. It's a common thing that a lot of the GMs with more experience in both than me have observed, that FHM is equally cruel in different ways and was especially bad in that first season. A lot of what made it really bad was RNG and happenstance, and if it hadn't happened that way and had lasted a good four seasons, it might have been a good trade on both sides.
I think everybody wanted Geek; can't blame 'em either, he's an awesome human. In the end, I stayed in that scouting server and answered all of the questions (that McZ quiz still haunts me occasionally), which was a greenlight and sign of interest. I could have left, probably should have because of the inane bullshit, but I kind of wanted to see how it played out. I was and still am honored that you took a chance.
For what it's worth, I really, really, really had to think about bringing up my concerns. Like, sitting at the bottom of the driveway, lights on, radio off after work thinking multiple times in the couple of weeks ahead of that. I felt bad that I wasn't fitting, and I knew it was a me problem. That's the biggest thing: you, Mutedfaith, JMac, Segi, and Fever were the people I talked to the most and y'all are awesome people and I have nothing but good things to say. There were a few people that I could only take in small doses, but we were on different schedules so it wasn't too bad. I don't remember you sticking your foot in your mouth; it seemed more awkward on both of our parts because it was our first conversation and it was about my contract, and that's always tough. The original plan was to give it until my contract was up before making a decision one way or another. Ultimately, the trade and fallout just shoved in my face that I had shifted at some point from "it'll get better" to "if it doesn't get better, I'll leave when my contract is up" to "I'm leaving when my contract is up". Having that thought a week before the season is over is one thing. Having that thought before the first of three seasons is over is unfair to everybody involved.
Thank you for helping me get to where I am. I don't know if I've ever actually said that. I'm glad you got Toast. I haven't interacted too much, but they seem cool and if they're the right person and have bought in to the organization, that's all the better. I'm also happy to hear that Lyezech still pops in from time to time. It's been great getting to know you a bit more through the J Head Office and recipes in drama threads.
No need to apologize haha. I know plenty of people have different views on different trades but they all dont exist in a vacuum either. There was tons of inside knowledge on that one that I like to provide. I know as a GM you also likely see people say "why didn't they do XYZ" without knowing that XYZ wasn't an option.
With Geek that was my sneakier draft strat, I traded in front of NOLA because I knew they were targeting him, but was leaking a completely different player there. I just didn't expect WPG to snipe me on a G.
I can also understand the strong personalities factor for the LR at the time. I was still working to clear that up and I think a lot of those instances have left or have changed for the better. It was worse before I got hired but it took a bit to get a better shape for the team.
The FHM swap would have seen me make a completely different strategy in that draft honestly had I known how things would have turned out, but hindsight and all that. From what I was seeing we could have still challenged for a playoff spot previously haha.
And nothing to be said about wanting to get a change of scenery, it happens for people. I'm just glad you stayed around and got involved more instead of going IA. I care too much about the league to want that.
_Blitz_
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