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Wearingabear · 03-29-2021, 07:41 PM

Trying to coordinate up to 20 brand new gms every two months to draft the current eligible J players is an insane idea.

WJC operates as an off season draw for players and a stepping stone for people who want to try out GMing in a sim league for the first time. That's an immense learning curve for any first gen player who has GM ambitions.

Just look at the size and scope of the Mega ReDraft that's going on right now. I'm pretty bsure that went on over the course of a season.

HO should take a more hands on approach to the checks and balances of the rosters. Rosters get submitted to HO, double checked to make sure all eligible active players are on a team. Once that happens teams can make their announcements.

Ruggsy · 03-29-2021, 08:32 PM

03-29-2021, 07:17 PM3lewsers Wrote:
03-29-2021, 04:46 PMRuggsy Wrote: This sounds like way too much work for no reason. I sure as hell wouldn't have signed up if I thought Id have to draft together a team, and once again would take longer. I think we should just be looking at automatic solutions and addendums to the rules not just changing the WJC to a mini SMJHL for the fuck of it lol.

At that point just get rid of it and tell everyone you have to wait until next season to play

well, my point is that the WJC isn't really nation-based at this point since there aren't enough representatives for each country.
last season, there were almost 50 players assigned to teams other than their player-assigned or transfer nation.

So, in needing to fill out each roster, the nations really meant nothing anymore.

I think my main point is I don't see how a full draft would do active players finding a team any better then my suggestion. The fact that I'm playing for Ireland (sort of) is the only reason I cared about WJC to start. Now I proudly am GMing a team that has all but 1 user (loaned from finland) from the British Isles, and we are 100% active players. Were all ending up in IIHF together soon anyway so why not let it be interesting.
In the end I think this whole conversion has lost its course, the best solution is quick rule changes that help actives get on teams to play what is an essentially an offseason timewaster for fun. Probably my last post here so here's my final conclusion:
-Nation Pages stay updated in the first place
-Team picks from its current actives, and other actives go into a pool
-short teams picks from active pool
-still short teams pick from their own inactives

Nhamlet · 03-30-2021, 01:51 AM

03-29-2021, 07:41 PMWearingabear Wrote: Trying to coordinate up to 20 brand new gms every two months to draft the current eligible J players is an insane idea.

WJC operates as an off season draw for players and a stepping stone for people who want to try out GMing in a sim league for the first time. That's an immense learning curve for any first gen player who has GM ambitions.

Just look at the size and scope of the Mega ReDraft that's going on right now. I'm pretty bsure that went on over the course of a season.

HO should take a more hands on approach to the checks and balances of the rosters. Rosters get submitted to HO, double checked to make sure all eligible active players are on a team. Once that happens teams can make their announcements.

Perfect ideal, nation lists are constantly up to date. Single spreadsheet/list that collects position/TPE/last logged in.

A more realistic solution is that SMJHL GMs submit a list of active/inactive players they have on their team, that's cross referenced with the WJC list. Any names not included are assumed to have graduated. Junior GMs would know better of who is and isn't active. I don't think it'd be an incredible ask on top of the current duties.

Bfine · 03-30-2021, 08:55 AM

03-30-2021, 01:51 AMNhamlet Wrote:
03-29-2021, 07:41 PMWearingabear Wrote: Trying to coordinate up to 20 brand new gms every two months to draft the current eligible J players is an insane idea.

WJC operates as an off season draw for players and a stepping stone for people who want to try out GMing in a sim league for the first time. That's an immense learning curve for any first gen player who has GM ambitions.

Just look at the size and scope of the Mega ReDraft that's going on right now. I'm pretty bsure that went on over the course of a season.

HO should take a more hands on approach to the checks and balances of the rosters. Rosters get submitted to HO, double checked to make sure all eligible active players are on a team. Once that happens teams can make their announcements.

Perfect ideal, nation lists are constantly up to date. Single spreadsheet/list that collects position/TPE/last logged in.

A more realistic solution is that SMJHL GMs submit a list of active/inactive players they have on their team, that's cross referenced with the WJC list. Any names not included are assumed to have graduated. Junior GMs would know better of who is and isn't active. I don't think it'd be an incredible ask on top of the current duties.

You really want to just give yourself more work huh Ham.

But that is a good point. J GM's do know more about all these players than the WJC GM's or WJC HO, so leveraging them to see who's active/inactive could be a huge bonus and really fix the process.

Avakael · 03-30-2021, 08:59 AM

I went out of my way to pick a country that doesn't have any IIHF presence at all to ensure I couldn't be involved in international tournaments and somehow I'm still caught up in one. I even went inactive and busted. There's no escape.

Ruggsy · 03-30-2021, 09:36 AM

03-30-2021, 08:55 AMMinnesotafine Wrote:
03-30-2021, 01:51 AMNhamlet Wrote: Perfect ideal, nation lists are constantly up to date. Single spreadsheet/list that collects position/TPE/last logged in.

A more realistic solution is that SMJHL GMs submit a list of active/inactive players they have on their team, that's cross referenced with the WJC list. Any names not included are assumed to have graduated. Junior GMs would know better of who is and isn't active. I don't think it'd be an incredible ask on top of the current duties.
You really want to just give yourself more work huh Ham.

But that is a good point. J GM's do know more about all these players than the WJC GM's or WJC HO, so leveraging them to see who's active/inactive could be a huge bonus and really fix the process.

Being active is just a criteria of 'have you done something on your char in x amount of time'. It's just scraped data so there's nothing extra for the J GMs could give about it.

caltroit_red_flames · 03-30-2021, 09:38 AM

This pisses me off. Is WJC HO even doing their job?

Look at the rulebook, if Russia doesn't have enough spots for players then the number of teams is supposed to increase.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-94L...sp=sharing

caltroit_red_flames · 03-30-2021, 09:40 AM

03-29-2021, 09:57 AMCount Chocula Wrote: I get why you feel upset over your snub. I feel that IIHF and WJC should be reserved for active users only, as it is an off-season distraction at this point. So there is no reason to distract users who aren’t here, as the tournaments themself are meaningless (which is a whole other issue). However you should not be creating a player based on having a good WJC experience unless you plan on recreating every 4 seasons. A nation with several roster openings in the WJC may have a backlog of talent in the IIHF and you could sit out those tournaments for several seasons instead. Most users will spend most of their time at the IIHF level, which is why that’s the only base of players that has a list.

This is literally in the rulebook. You are always supposed to play an active over an inactive.

*Fluw* · 03-30-2021, 10:06 AM

03-30-2021, 09:38 AMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote: This pisses me off. Is WJC HO even doing their job?

Look at the rulebook, if Russia doesn't have enough spots for players then the number of teams is supposed to increase.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-94L...sp=sharing

Maybe I am blind but I don't see where it says that in the rulebook. Additionally if we seperate UCORCAL in the WJC we are going to fall into another situation as seen with the Canada and USA split, its going to end up with a lot of inactives playing up and down the line up of those split teams. I have mentioned this already but as Canada White GM last season, there wasn't enough actives to build a full active roster, I was legit stuck with sub 250 tpe players on my second line, downwards, despite claiming as many actives as I could from other nations. A split of UCORCAL at the WJC level could cause similar issues and then there will be more complaints. I think if anything the rulebook can be revisited and the process can be made a bit clearer for the next WJC, just don't think another split should be done until there is actually research put into it, so it doesn't end up doing more harm than good.

Segi · 03-30-2021, 10:33 AM

03-30-2021, 10:06 AMFluw Wrote:
03-30-2021, 09:38 AMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote: This pisses me off. Is WJC HO even doing their job?

Look at the rulebook, if Russia doesn't have enough spots for players then the number of teams is supposed to increase.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-94L...sp=sharing

Maybe I am blind but I don't see where it says that in the rulebook. Additionally if we seperate UCORCAL in the WJC we are going to fall into another situation as seen with the Canada and USA split, its going to end up with a lot of inactives playing up and down the line up of those split teams. I have mentioned this already but as Canada White GM last season, there wasn't enough actives to build a full active roster, I was legit stuck with sub 250 tpe players on my second line, downwards, despite claiming as many actives as I could from other nations. A split of UCORCAL at the WJC level could cause similar issues and then there will be more complaints. I think if anything the rulebook can be revisited and the process can be made a bit clearer for the next WJC, just don't think another split should be done until there is actually research put into it, so it doesn't end up doing more harm than good.

WJC should be kinda dynamic. Splitting up UCORCAL can make sense one season and be a mistake the next. Russia had like 10 players join one draft class and then went back to their normal 0-3 per class. Once that class gets called up, the amount of players on the WJC team drastically changes.

*fishy* · 03-30-2021, 10:46 AM

How hard would it be for WJC HO to expand with 1-2 new hirings, and keep a list of which users are active and eligible to play for each country?

I feel like this would solve a lot of issues that new users are experiencing, and like isn’t a hard thing for WJC HO to do?

@Ace if this is already a thing, how do actives keep slipping through the cracks? Why does WJC HO not ensure every active is on a team?

*Fluw* · 03-30-2021, 10:46 AM

03-30-2021, 10:33 AMSegi Wrote:
03-30-2021, 10:06 AMFluw Wrote: Maybe I am blind but I don't see where it says that in the rulebook. Additionally if we seperate UCORCAL in the WJC we are going to fall into another situation as seen with the Canada and USA split, its going to end up with a lot of inactives playing up and down the line up of those split teams. I have mentioned this already but as Canada White GM last season, there wasn't enough actives to build a full active roster, I was legit stuck with sub 250 tpe players on my second line, downwards, despite claiming as many actives as I could from other nations. A split of UCORCAL at the WJC level could cause similar issues and then there will be more complaints. I think if anything the rulebook can be revisited and the process can be made a bit clearer for the next WJC, just don't think another split should be done until there is actually research put into it, so it doesn't end up doing more harm than good.

WJC should be kinda dynamic. Splitting up UCORCAL can make sense one season and be a mistake the next. Russia had like 10 players join one draft class and then went back to their normal 0-3 per class. Once that class gets called up, the amount of players on the WJC team drastically changes.

That is a fair point but again, my point is I think research would need to be done with regards to roster composition of UCORCAL. You dont want to end up removing Russia and giving them their own team and then the remaining UCORCAL ,Czech and Latvia, end up with hardly any active players. So while it does sound ideal, it would need to be looked into each season to make sure it is viable, because playing on a gutted team with hardly any actives is also bad for the user experience.

What I am thinking is a revisiting of the rule book to put more of an emphasis of having active players on rosters, if your team can't fit you then you can be loaned out to another team, and potentially make it mandatory for them to take you if they have an inactive. This would make this fair in my honest opinion, FHM is weird anyways as a team with 3 lines of sub 250 tpe can win Bronze.

*Fluw* · 03-30-2021, 10:48 AM

03-30-2021, 10:46 AMfishy Wrote: How hard would it be for WJC HO to expand with 1-2 new hirings, and keep a list of which users are active and eligible to play for each country?

I feel like this would solve a lot of issues that new users are experiencing, and like isn’t a hard thing for WJC HO to do?

@Ace if this is already a thing, how do actives keep slipping through the cracks? Why does WJC HO not ensure every active is on a team?

As I just posted, currently it is not mandatory for extra active players to be picked up by a different nation as per the rulebook, and I am of the opinion that this should change. There is an updated eligibility list for each nation that is up to date, and my plan is to make it better, just got brought on this season to the WJC HO team so haven't had much time to work on implementing any changes.

I am also working on updating the spreadsheet and some of the processes to make things a bit more streamlined and easier.

But the feedback is much appreciated.

Nhamlet · 03-30-2021, 11:38 AM

Majority of the egregious "inactives selection" is due to the Canada/USA split. Looking at the rest of the other teams, they've generally well filled out on their own starting pool with a few loans.

Even with last WJC when they were first introduced, these split teams averaged about 7 inactives each.

***Ace*** · 03-30-2021, 02:21 PM

03-30-2021, 10:46 AMfishy Wrote: How hard would it be for WJC HO to expand with 1-2 new hirings, and keep a list of which users are active and eligible to play for each country?

I feel like this would solve a lot of issues that new users are experiencing, and like isn’t a hard thing for WJC HO to do?

@Ace if this is already a thing, how do actives keep slipping through the cracks? Why does WJC HO not ensure every active is on a team?

Activity changes on a week to week basis. However, WJC HO agree that we need to do a better job of documenting this to present this data to the GMs. We will be making adjustments to our sheets as well as some rulebook adjustments to further document the activity mandate. (if anyone knows any Google Sheets wizards please refer them our way).

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