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caltroit_red_flames · 11-27-2019, 12:34 PM

11-27-2019, 12:33 PMWasty Wrote:
11-27-2019, 12:30 PMMayuu Wrote: I created my first player to be a playmaker and knowing that that archetype is just simply inferior in both ability to generate offense and defense in STSH kills the will to put any sort of progress into the player. Say we stay in STSH, give me one good reason as to why i shouldn't just kill of Passamus
The idea that high passing is detrimental to your player is absolutely asinine and again I really wish people would stop talking in absolutes.

Should we just ignore the sims that have shown that to be fact?

Mayuu · 11-27-2019, 12:35 PM

11-27-2019, 12:33 PMWasty Wrote:
11-27-2019, 12:30 PMMayuu Wrote: I created my first player to be a playmaker and knowing that that archetype is just simply inferior in both ability to generate offense and defense in STSH kills the will to put any sort of progress into the player. Say we stay in STSH, give me one good reason as to why i shouldn't just kill of Passamus
The idea that high passing is detrimental to your player is absolutely asinine and again I really wish people would stop talking in absolutes.

Yet all I've seen is results of the opposite. Care to share your results where passing isn't actually shit?

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Mayuu · 11-27-2019, 12:37 PM

11-27-2019, 12:34 PMArGarBarGar Wrote: What are the stats in FHM that make being a grinder or defensive player viable?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...=355821563

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caltroit_red_flames · 11-27-2019, 12:39 PM

11-27-2019, 12:34 PMArGarBarGar Wrote: What are the stats in FHM that make being a grinder or defensive player viable?

Checking, positioning, hitting, shot blocking, defensive read, bravery, speed, acceleration, strength, balance.

What makes this work is that to be really good offensively you'll need to have a ton of high offensive stats. The update scale will limit your ability to improve everything like we have it currently where everything is capped around 1500. No grinder is ever going to matchup to a player like Ovechkin just like in real life, but also like in real life putting a grinder out against the SHL's version of an offensive player will be better than pitting sniper vs sniper.

caltroit_red_flames · 11-27-2019, 12:40 PM

11-27-2019, 12:37 PMMayuu Wrote:
11-27-2019, 12:34 PMArGarBarGar Wrote: What are the stats in FHM that make being a grinder or defensive player viable?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...=355821563

I love this. I'm specifically interested in the shadow role. Looks like one that'd be fun to build.

ArGarBarGar · 11-27-2019, 12:41 PM

11-27-2019, 12:39 PMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote:
11-27-2019, 12:34 PMArGarBarGar Wrote: What are the stats in FHM that make being a grinder or defensive player viable?

Checking, positioning, hitting, shot blocking, defensive read, bravery, speed, acceleration, strength, balance.

What makes this work is that to be really good offensively you'll need to have a ton of high offensive stats. The update scale will limit your ability to improve everything like we have it currently where everything is capped around 1500. No grinder is ever going to matchup to a player like Ovechkin just like in real life, but also like in real life putting a grinder out against the SHL's version of an offensive player will be better than pitting sniper vs sniper.

I'm asking about stats, not attributes.

I am looking for what the output is that will motivate defensive builds or grinding builds.

Alonzo Garbanzo Final Tallies (Among Defensemen):
2nd in Goals (208), All-Time Assists Leader (765)*, All-Time Points Leader (973), 3rd in Hits (2587), All-Time Blocked Shots Leader (1882)*
*All-Time Leader Among All Skaters
Player Profile | Update Thread
[Image: IeEV7Iv.png]

Mayuu · 11-27-2019, 12:42 PM

11-27-2019, 12:40 PMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote:
11-27-2019, 12:37 PMMayuu Wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...=355821563

I love this. I'm specifically interested in the shadow role. Looks like one that'd be fun to build.

These are also not made up archetypes, they are in the game so we don't have to make them. The game will calculate which role your player fills the best, you can be a specialist (highly skilled in a certain position) or more of a do it all by spreading your points more evenly

[Image: unknown.png?width=1441&height=629]

[Image: unknown.png?width=1441&height=629]

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Wasty · 11-27-2019, 12:43 PM

11-27-2019, 12:34 PMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote:
11-27-2019, 12:33 PMWasty Wrote: The idea that high passing is detrimental to your player is absolutely asinine and again I really wish people would stop talking in absolutes.

Should we just ignore the sims that have shown that to be fact?

You say to win cups and have a good player don’t have checking.. mike Izzy has how many cups and awards?

My player is a pass first higher PA than SC player and had over a ppg.

Every NHL STHS ratings file has almost every superstar with higher PA than SC and Simon makes those ratings.

My league has plenty of higher PA players than are successful infact the leading scorer for the past two seasons is a pass first forward.

So no it’s not fact. Plenty of examples as to why PA is still an important stat and checking doesn’t hurt your player either.

#40 Niclas Wastlund - W - VANCOUVER WHALERS Whalers

/ MINNESOTA MONARCHS

Mayuu · 11-27-2019, 12:46 PM

11-27-2019, 12:43 PMWasty Wrote:
11-27-2019, 12:34 PMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote: Should we just ignore the sims that have shown that to be fact?
You say to win cups and have a good player don’t have checking.. mike Izzy has how many cups and awards?

My player is a pass first higher PA than SC player and had over a ppg.

Every NHL STHS ratings file has almost every superstar with higher PA than SC and Simon makes those ratings.

My league has plenty of higher PA players than are successful infact the leading scorer for the past two seasons is a pass first forward.

So no it’s not fact. Plenty of examples as to why PA is still an important stat and checking doesn’t hurt your player either.

So instead of using anecdotal evidence why dont you try it yourself. Add a team entirely made up of shoot first player, or half a team, or heck, even just one line where there's significant gap between scoring and passing in scorings favor and see how they stack up.

Then talk.

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caltroit_red_flames · 11-27-2019, 12:46 PM

11-27-2019, 12:43 PMWasty Wrote:
11-27-2019, 12:34 PMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote: Should we just ignore the sims that have shown that to be fact?
You say to win cups and have a good player don’t have checking.. mike Izzy has how many cups and awards?

My player is a pass first higher PA than SC player and had over a ppg.

Every NHL STHS ratings file has almost every superstar with higher PA than SC and Simon makes those ratings.

My league has plenty of higher PA players than are successful infact the leading scorer for the past two seasons is a pass first forward.

So no it’s not fact. Plenty of examples as to why PA is still an important stat and checking doesn’t hurt your player either.

When everyone plays along that's how it works. When not everyone plays along you end up with one of the worst teams in the league ending the season with a +100 goal differential.

DeletedAtUserRequest · 11-27-2019, 12:46 PM

If we make this change, another worry for me is how we get all 16 GMs efficient enough to make this move. Everything a GM knew in terms of strategy/builds/attributes for the past 50 seasons is down the drain... what if a portion of teams are not ready by the change eta? ....we don’t want 5 teams 4 tiers ahead of everyone else moving in...

I know we don’t have to worry about that right now, just throwing out some concerns..

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Wasty · 11-27-2019, 12:49 PM

11-27-2019, 12:46 PMMayuu Wrote:
11-27-2019, 12:43 PMWasty Wrote: You say to win cups and have a good player don’t have checking.. mike Izzy has how many cups and awards?

My player is a pass first higher PA than SC player and had over a ppg.

Every NHL STHS ratings file has almost every superstar with higher PA than SC and Simon makes those ratings.

My league has plenty of higher PA players than are successful infact the leading scorer for the past two seasons is a pass first forward.

So no it’s not fact. Plenty of examples as to why PA is still an important stat and checking doesn’t hurt your player either.

So instead of using anecdotal evidence why dont you try it yourself. Add a team entirely made up of shoot first player, or half a team, or heck, even just one line where there's significant gap between scoring and passing in scorings favor and see how they stack up.

Then talk.

I do that every damn day in my own league and again you’re talking about absolute builds. Hell @Toivo knows that having two (or three) high SC and low PA players on the same line doesn’t break the sim or give him cups.

I have worked with STHS as a Simmer, Player Builder, and GM for over 7 years so yea I’ll talk all I want.

#40 Niclas Wastlund - W - VANCOUVER WHALERS Whalers

/ MINNESOTA MONARCHS

Grapehead · 11-27-2019, 12:50 PM

11-27-2019, 12:46 PMMike Izzy Wrote: If we make this change, another worry for me is how we get all 16 GMs efficient enough to make this move. Everything a GM knew in terms of strategy/builds/attributes for the past 50 seasons is down the drain... we don’t want 5 teams 4 tiers ahead of everyone else moving in...

I'd say the majority of teams will have someone familiar with FHM, and it's my plan for SFP to just include them in our conversations in the early stages to help get the overall management group up to speed. I personally don't know much of FHM, but I know I can find help with that internally. Some GMs might need some extra help, but plenty of us knew nothing of STHS before the SHL anyway.

DeletedAtUserRequest · 11-27-2019, 12:52 PM

11-27-2019, 12:50 PMGrapehead Wrote:
11-27-2019, 12:46 PMMike Izzy Wrote: If we make this change, another worry for me is how we get all 16 GMs efficient enough to make this move. Everything a GM knew in terms of strategy/builds/attributes for the past 50 seasons is down the drain... we don’t want 5 teams 4 tiers ahead of everyone else moving in...

I'd say the majority of teams will have someone familiar with FHM, and it's my plan to just include them in our conversations in the early stages to help get the overall management group up to speed. I personally don't know much of FHM, but I know I can find help with that internally. Some GMs might need some extra help, but plenty of us knew nothing of STHS before the SHL anyway.

Yeah that’s what we were thinking of doing too. Cheers

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Mayuu · 11-27-2019, 12:53 PM

11-27-2019, 12:49 PMWasty Wrote:
11-27-2019, 12:46 PMMayuu Wrote: So instead of using anecdotal evidence why dont you try it yourself. Add a team entirely made up of shoot first player, or half a team, or heck, even just one line where there's significant gap between scoring and passing in scorings favor and see how they stack up.

Then talk.
I do that every damn day in my own league and again you’re talking about absolute builds. Hell @Toivo knows that having two (or three) high SC and low PA players on the same line doesn’t break the sim or give him cups.

I have worked with STHS as a Simmer, Player Builder, and GM for over 7 years so yea I’ll talk all I want.

I'll take your word for it just as much as you take my word. I got endless amount of test showing that a regular team will get absolutely shit on by just having a few high scoring forwards and defenders.
I'd love to see yours.

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