05-19-2020, 07:01 PMDaftRaincloud Wrote: Using the "just a meme" excuse to attack someone is a cop out and a dismissal of responsibility for your actions and how they can impact others. There's a fine line between memes and attacks and to be fair I wasn't the one that raised the issue in the first place. Putting hurtful text on a funny image doesn't turn that text into a meme on the merit that it's now attached to a funny image.
Actually, there's some really cool scholarship out there on the role of humor and group bonding out there that applies to this. To disconnect from the larger conversation here, that's not to say that hurtful language in meme/joke format is a good or acceptable thing. It does serve an explicit purpose of creating in-group/out-group based on the humor.
So in short, people can find a joke funny, and you might not, and you're BOTH right on the surface.
Douglass, Mirpuri, English, & Yip (2016) is the first example I remember off the top of my head, and then there's something from Nolan Cabrera that's also very interesting iirc
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05-19-2020, 07:01 PMDaftRaincloud Wrote: Using the "just a meme" excuse to attack someone is a cop out and a dismissal of responsibility for your actions and how they can impact others. There's a fine line between memes and attacks and to be fair I wasn't the one that raised the issue in the first place. Putting hurtful text on a funny image doesn't turn that text into a meme on the merit that it's now attached to a funny image.
Actually, there's some really cool scholarship out there on the role of humor and group bonding out there that applies to this. To disconnect from the larger conversation here, that's not to say that hurtful language in meme/joke format is a good or acceptable thing. It does serve an explicit purpose of creating in-group/out-group based on the humor.
So in short, people can find a joke funny, and you might not, and you're BOTH right on the surface.
Douglass, Mirpuri, English, & Yip (2016) is the first example I remember off the top of my head, and then there's something from Nolan Cabrera that's also very interesting iirc
05-19-2020, 07:16 PM(This post was last modified: 05-19-2020, 07:16 PM by JNH.)
05-19-2020, 07:11 PMkarey Wrote:
05-19-2020, 07:06 PMFuzzSHL Wrote: Karey, I've got respect for you. But Daft is right here. And, in fairness to him, I was the one who brought this up.
There's a time and a place. This is not it.
Totally agree, the memes were for everybody to have a laugh and we stockpiled knowing it would get an audience.. somehow it is being to look like we are bullying
However it does take a dark turn reflecting the probably turmoil Ace is in. Not an admission of malice/guilt, but saying memeing a punishment thread is definitely not the kindest place... I get that
Yeah I think it became a bit of an issue when an entire group of people posted their pre-made memes within minutes of the punishment being posted to pile on a guy getting fired.
Also "somehow it is being to look like we are bullying", it isn't somehow or a long stretch to do so. You said it yourself: the memes were for everybody to have a laugh and you stockpiled them. Except, everyone was laughing AT Ace. A group of people, making jokes for everyone to laugh at at someone's expense. Seems a bit like you're verging on bullying right there.
I didn't think any were "hurtful" in and of themselves, but the general conduct of the group could be said to be.
The old adage that the rules are the rules I think can be reconsidered in this situation. Fine him but don’t take away his GM job, I think that’s way too harsh.
Obviously the fine must be a 3rd rounder. Make it so HO!
05-19-2020, 07:14 PMhhh81 Wrote: Actually, there's some really cool scholarship out there on the role of humor and group bonding out there that applies to this. To disconnect from the larger conversation here, that's not to say that hurtful language in meme/joke format is a good or acceptable thing. It does serve an explicit purpose of creating in-group/out-group based on the humor.
So in short, people can find a joke funny, and you might not, and you're BOTH right on the surface.
Douglass, Mirpuri, English, & Yip (2016) is the first example I remember off the top of my head, and then there's something from Nolan Cabrera that's also very interesting iirc
Nerd
over the line. You're busted, idiot. Hands behind your back
05-19-2020, 07:01 PMSegi Wrote: How would you propose we do it then? Giving the responsibility to keep track of all the picks to just one person is kind of asking for disaster. I know there are people who can do that job well, but with all the conditions, mistakes just can happen. Asking every team to keep track of their own picks - just their own, not all of them - really helps in finding the mistakes that do happen, before a pick is actually used by a team. I'm not saying a pick tracker should get off scott free for not doing their job, but I don't want all that weight on the shoulders of one person.
The problem is in your last sentence. Thanks to the absolute GM responsibility the middle men often if not close to always get off scott free. May I remind the Newfoundland player, Kostitsyn, crossing the 350 cap punishment? By the punishment itself, clear GM fault. However, how come the updater that, when a guy in Js crossing over 350 TPE, didnt check his draft class and didnt stop it from hapenning? I agree that putting stuff like pick tracking only on shoulders of one guy and only punishing him for mistakes basically just shifts the blame from GMs to him, but there should be a level of shared responsibility, which in turn I would believe would make people double check their work themselves on top of us.
And I just opened the other punishment that Nour just posted...good to see, although I just made a bit of an ass out of myself. Of course its not to this particular case I mention, but its exactly what I would imagine is fair.
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05-19-2020, 07:17 PM(This post was last modified: 05-19-2020, 07:20 PM by karey.)
05-19-2020, 07:16 PMJNH Wrote:
05-19-2020, 07:11 PMkarey Wrote: Totally agree, the memes were for everybody to have a laugh and we stockpiled knowing it would get an audience.. somehow it is being to look like we are bullying
However it does take a dark turn reflecting the probably turmoil Ace is in. Not an admission of malice/guilt, but saying memeing a punishment thread is definitely not the kindest place... I get that
Yeah I think it became a bit of an issue when an entire group of people posted their pre-made memes within minutes of the punishment being posted to pile on a guy getting fired.
Also "somehow it is being to look like we are bullying", it isn't somehow or a long stretch to do so. You said it yourself: the memes were for everybody to have a laugh and you stockpiled them. Except, everyone was laughing AT Ace. A group of people, making jokes for everyone to laugh at at someone's expense. Seems a bit like you're verging on bullying right there.
I didn't think any were "hurtful" in and of themselves, but the general conduct of the group could be said to be.
Laughing at the situation is not laughing at Ace.
Replace Ace with any GM and jokes would still be the same.
That being said, that's totally fair and not something I'm looking to defend.
Actions and the perceived intent aren't always met eye to eye. I know my intentions and although they were in innocent pursuit of laughs, y'all defs got way more offended than I wanted so i just gotta say sorry and back off
05-19-2020, 07:11 PMkarey Wrote: Totally agree, the memes were for everybody to have a laugh and we stockpiled knowing it would get an audience.. somehow it is being to look like we are bullying
However it does take a dark turn reflecting the probably turmoil Ace is in. Not an admission of malice/guilt, but saying memeing a punishment thread is definitely not the kindest place... I get that
Yeah I think it became a bit of an issue when an entire group of people posted their pre-made memes within minutes of the punishment being posted to pile on a guy getting fired.
Also "somehow it is being to look like we are bullying", it isn't somehow or a long stretch to do so. You said it yourself: the memes were for everybody to have a laugh and you stockpiled them. Except, everyone was laughing AT Ace. A group of people, making jokes for everyone to laugh at at someone's expense. Seems a bit like you're verging on bullying right there.
I didn't think any were "hurtful" in and of themselves, but the general conduct of the group could be said to be.
05-19-2020, 06:10 PMPremierBromanov Wrote: Good to know you can be fired for drunk trading but cheating your lines in the playoffs is a slap on the wrists
05-19-2020, 07:11 PMkarey Wrote: Totally agree, the memes were for everybody to have a laugh and we stockpiled knowing it would get an audience.. somehow it is being to look like we are bullying
However it does take a dark turn reflecting the probably turmoil Ace is in. Not an admission of malice/guilt, but saying memeing a punishment thread is definitely not the kindest place... I get that
Yeah I think it became a bit of an issue when an entire group of people posted their pre-made memes within minutes of the punishment being posted to pile on a guy getting fired.
Also "somehow it is being to look like we are bullying", it isn't somehow or a long stretch to do so. You said it yourself: the memes were for everybody to have a laugh and you stockpiled them. Except, everyone was laughing AT Ace. A group of people, making jokes for everyone to laugh at at someone's expense. Seems a bit like you're verging on bullying right there.
I didn't think any were "hurtful" in and of themselves, but the general conduct of the group could be said to be.
the timing also shows intent, premeditation. Its not just "oh haha, lets rib him a little". its a concerted effort, made beforehand, with the express purpose of making fun of ace/the situation.
I mean, if comedy is tragedy plus time, WHERES THE FUCKING TIME? Ace could laugh about this in a month of he didnt get fired. But when he's sweating bullets, ready to leave the SHL over this? How is this in the realm of "in good fun?"
05-19-2020, 07:16 PMJNH Wrote: Yeah I think it became a bit of an issue when an entire group of people posted their pre-made memes within minutes of the punishment being posted to pile on a guy getting fired.
Also "somehow it is being to look like we are bullying", it isn't somehow or a long stretch to do so. You said it yourself: the memes were for everybody to have a laugh and you stockpiled them. Except, everyone was laughing AT Ace. A group of people, making jokes for everyone to laugh at at someone's expense. Seems a bit like you're verging on bullying right there.
I didn't think any were "hurtful" in and of themselves, but the general conduct of the group could be said to be.
the timing also shows intent, premeditation. Its not just "oh haha, lets rib him a little". its a concerted effort, made beforehand, with the express purpose of making fun of ace/the situation.
I mean, if comedy is tragedy plus time, WHERES THE FUCKING TIME? Ace could laugh about this in a month of he didnt get fired. But when he's sweating bullets, ready to leave the SHL over this? How is this in the realm of "in good fun?"
Ace and I have had more than our fair share of battles but if the SHL loses him over this it'd be terrible.
05-19-2020, 07:16 PMJNH Wrote: Yeah I think it became a bit of an issue when an entire group of people posted their pre-made memes within minutes of the punishment being posted to pile on a guy getting fired.
Also "somehow it is being to look like we are bullying", it isn't somehow or a long stretch to do so. You said it yourself: the memes were for everybody to have a laugh and you stockpiled them. Except, everyone was laughing AT Ace. A group of people, making jokes for everyone to laugh at at someone's expense. Seems a bit like you're verging on bullying right there.
I didn't think any were "hurtful" in and of themselves, but the general conduct of the group could be said to be.
Laughing at the situation is not laughing at Ace.
Replace Ace with any GM and jokes would still be the same.
That being said, that's totally fair and not something I'm looking to defend.
Actions and the perceived intent aren't always met eye to eye. I know my intentions and although they were in innocent pursuit of laughs, y'all defs got way more offended than I wanted so i just gotta say sorry and back off
thats not precedent for it being okay. It wouldn't be okay if we were using slurs, just because we were all doing it. We're trying to make the SHL an environment where people are reasonably confortable, free from toxicity.
I think everyone had them ready to go because everyone knew what the punishment would be well in advance.
On an actual note, while I sympathize with the fact that Ace has been solid for a long time in NEW, it is what the rules spell out. And to be honest, you shouldn't be drunk for a draft, and it's a bad look to try and absolve yourself of responsibility by pointing that out, because you shouldn't be drunk and trying to manage. Let your co do it.
hhh81
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