04-04-2021, 01:36 AMDollaBill Wrote: Bottom line: I stumbled across the SHL while searching for an NHL GM Sim to join. GM Sims where the only sims I've experienced in the past. I gave this site a chance and enjoyed getting into the progression of my created player. I'm very competitive and became dedicated to seeing him succeed in the game. I'm just now being told that his success as a player in the sim doesn't matter nearly as much as how GMs evaluate me and my contributions as a handler.
I didn't join the SHL to be evaluated as a handler. I joined the SHL for what happens in the sim. I can't believe I'm being viewed as a leper because of it.
I have a lot to reevaluate right now. In the meantime, I feel the SHL rookie guide needs to be vastly amended.
For what it's worth, we are currently in the middle of an overhaul of the Create A Player experience, and hope to make the experience clearer and more understandable for all involved. We will absolutely take your concerns from here into account when continuing this. Hope this experience doesn't discourage you too much
04-04-2021, 01:22 AMSegi Wrote: A players performance in their SMJHL rookie season tells very little of his eventual perfomance in the SHL. Years of experience have shown that the best way to create a good team in the SHL is to have a group of good earning, active people and the way to get that is to have a great locker room.
I'm open to declare positional needs a little better, but as other people have stated before, a correction in one way can lead to a bigger deficit the other, so we have to be careful with that.
When you first created your account, you got a PM by me, inviting you to a discord server with all the mentors. We would've been happy to answer any questions before you created your player. Of course, it's understandable if such questions didn't even cross your mind at that point.
If you have ideas on how to improve the way we contact and interact with new players, I'm always happy to hear it. Send me a dm on site or through discord.
Boom. Quote this shit and pin it somewhere in the Rookie Guide. And make sure we have something that alludes to the facts:
1. Recreates will always come first, regardless of the circumstances or length of time they were inactive
2. Being a cool person to hang with in the LR matters more than how your player build performs in the sim.
If you still don't get that your first point is simply not true, I don't know how to help you.
To the 2nd one: your great performance in your rookie season shows 2 things.
1. You're on a team that's good enough to score quite well, but not stacked enough to have to put you on the 4th line.
2. You're able to keep at the grind for a couple of months.
To show a similarly good performance over the long run on the SHL level (which is what SHL GMs do want to see), you need to be able to kerp at the grind for almost 2 years. We have seen a lot of great SMJHL players never make the SHL because they couldn't do that. Maybe this helps you to see why an enjoyable locker room experience is important to GMs.
Mathias Seger #15 | Player page | Update page Sigs by Donini, RainDelay, Fever and OrbitingDeath
04-04-2021, 01:25 AMDollaBill Wrote: 1. Recreates will always come first, regardless of the circumstances or length of time they were inactive
Over half the first round was first generation players though?
1/2/4/5/7/8/10/15/16/18
9 was also a new gen! But also the first 4 recreates off the board were HOFer, HOFer, 1750 last player and1750 last player. It’s not like someone that randomly recreated with a former 4th line scrub was going top 5
Alex Winters (retired)
Matej Winters (retired)
Dominik Winters S45 Jesster Trophy Winner Challenge Cup Winning Goal Club: S52
04-04-2021, 01:25 AMDollaBill Wrote: Boom. Quote this shit and pin it somewhere in the Rookie Guide. And make sure we have something that alludes to the facts:
1. Recreates will always come first, regardless of the circumstances or length of time they were inactive
2. Being a cool person to hang with in the LR matters more than how your player build performs in the sim.
If you still don't get that your first point is simply not true, I don't know how to help you.
To the 2nd one: your great performance in your rookie season shows 2 things.
1. You're on a team that's good enough to score quite well, but not stacked enough to have to put you on the 4th line.
2. You're able to keep at the grind for a couple of months.
To show a similarly good performance over the long run on the SHL level (which is what SHL GMs do want to see), you need to be able to kerp at the grind for almost 2 years. We have seen a lot of great SMJHL players never make the SHL because they couldn't do that. Maybe this helps you to see why an enjoyable locker room experience is important to GMs.
Yes, keep telling me how my player's success has nothing to do with him/my work and more to do with the team...and then sell me on why I should keep spending free time doing this shit. SMH
First of all, incredibly excited to have you be a part of the SFP locker room.
I think the disconnect you are feeling makes sense, you look at your success in the sim, and you see a player that would be a top 5 player based on that. I think people telling you that sim results don't matter are explaining it the wrong way. Sim results do really matter they are incredibly important, and teams want players who have good builds and perform well in the sim. Flacko Lagerfield is an HoF player, considrered one of the greats of the modern era and he wasn't a top earner, only had around 1500TPE, and honestly JSS sucks lmao. So he was looked upon as a top tier player considered one of the best of all time, worthy of the HoF, and heralded by Hamilton and wanted by all teams. So sim results matter and are incredibly important and teams NEED players who perform well. It's not all about locker room
Big issue here, is that sim results aren't the be all end all in the J. In your first year in the J you are a 155-250TPE player during the season, and some players are 4th liners in the J or are playing on bad teams that cause them to have worse stats. You have another 10x the TPE to earn in your career, meaning that you scoring 30 points for example in the J doesn't mean much when your build will change 10x over during your career as you grow. Unfortunately it's just the symptom of having guys drafted after 1 seasons in the J (doing more than that would cause a lot more players to go inactive). The biggest thing for GM's becomes team fit, positional fit, and TPE earning speed. Those are going to be the biggest factor for teams moving forward for who will be the best players and who will be able to be on their team for the next 10-15 seasons, which is going to be down to more than 1 season in the J
Realistically, recreates may go before you because they have had that past success showing they can build successful players rather than the fit in the LR. Keenan, for example, was selected by SFP first overall last year. While he's a recreate, he actually has no history with SFP or with Henrik or Smith. He happened to be a big earner, and had past success. That's the big thing with former players is that past success, so GM's tend to pick them because they are safer than a new player (but maybe not as possible at being quite as good).
I agree that disconnect is huge on the fact that sim success doesn't matter in the J year 1. But sim success will be massive when we get into the SHL. You will be coveted if you can make a good build and be a fantastic player in the sim regardless of anything else. So don't let people tell you it doesn't matter 100%. Unfortunately just doesn't matter quite as much with 155-250 builds since so much will change over the next 10-15 seaosns of your career in terms of build
04-04-2021, 01:36 AMDollaBill Wrote: Bottom line: I stumbled across the SHL while searching for an NHL GM Sim to join. GM Sims where the only sims I've experienced in the past. I gave this site a chance and enjoyed getting into the progression of my created player. I'm very competitive and became dedicated to seeing him succeed in the game. I'm just now being told that his success as a player in the sim doesn't matter nearly as much as how GMs evaluate me and my contributions as a handler.
I didn't join the SHL to be evaluated as a handler. I joined the SHL for what happens in the sim. I can't believe I'm being viewed as a leper because of it.
I have a lot to reevaluate right now. In the meantime, I feel the SHL rookie guide needs to be vastly amended.
Hey, I was super disappointed after my first SMJHL draft so I get what you're coming from. I was on tilt.
However, I don't want you to misconstrue what people have said. Success as a player in the sim at the J level in your rookie season doesn't matter as much because rookies get uneven levels of playing time and roles on their teams, in addition to the fact that was mentioned before which is that the player build that you'll join the SHL at (~800 TPE) is vastly different than the one you're playing with at ~250 TPE during the J regular season. It's really hard to correlate a good player from a rookie SMJHL season to their entire SHL career.
Once you get to the SHL level, success as a player in the sim obviously matters a lot more to your value but year 1 is less about on-ice success and more about your development as a member overall. To be honest, I had you pegged as a mid-late first round talent. You've written some really strong media pieces and have built up an impressive bank account.
It happens every year, players fall. Some GM's do go safer with their friends who have less TPE however that's not a you problem - that's a them problem. If they're going to potentially handicap their team then let them. Your team steals you in the early second AND gets someone else in the first round who's also first round calibre. Great, now you're set up really well for the future. Toronto had this a couple seasons ago getting SFresh & Tylar who are two of the top earners in their class in the early first & second respectively. They came 2nd in the heaviest division in the league last year.
It's been a long night and my brain isn't working nearly anywhere it should be. I don't know if any of what I wrote makes sense. End of the day, what I'm trying to say is that yes the league has an on & off-ice component. As a known commodity, some GM's favour recreates as inherently safer because you'll know vastly more about them than anything you can gain from a week or so of scouting new prospects. However, this doesn't stand for all GM's (as Keygan's pointed out) & this means literally nothing. You have an entire SHL career ahead of you to read media articles about how 'you're the biggest steal of the S59 draft' and how they 'can't believe you slipped to the 2nd round'. Pretty dope shit.
04-04-2021, 01:40 AMSegi Wrote: If you still don't get that your first point is simply not true, I don't know how to help you.
To the 2nd one: your great performance in your rookie season shows 2 things.
1. You're on a team that's good enough to score quite well, but not stacked enough to have to put you on the 4th line.
2. You're able to keep at the grind for a couple of months.
To show a similarly good performance over the long run on the SHL level (which is what SHL GMs do want to see), you need to be able to kerp at the grind for almost 2 years. We have seen a lot of great SMJHL players never make the SHL because they couldn't do that. Maybe this helps you to see why an enjoyable locker room experience is important to GMs.
Yes, keep telling me how my player's success has nothing to do with him/my work and more to do with the team...and then sell me on why I should keep spending free time doing this shit. SMH
That is absolutely not what I said. Please read the whole post.
Mathias Seger #15 | Player page | Update page Sigs by Donini, RainDelay, Fever and OrbitingDeath
Rookie sim league results ARE important - to your SMJHL team and in the race for individual/team success.
Where they aren't *as* important is in terms of SHL draft status because of the aforementioned differences between your current build & the one you'll break into the SHL at.
So the sim aspect of the site is still very much so important at all times, just in different contexts at different times.
04-04-2021, 01:46 AMJumpierPegasus Wrote: First of all, incredibly excited to have you be a part of the SFP locker room.
I think the disconnect you are feeling makes sense, you look at your success in the sim, and you see a player that would be a top 5 player based on that. I think people telling you that sim results don't matter are explaining it the wrong way. Sim results do really matter they are incredibly important, and teams want players who have good builds and perform well in the sim. Flacko Lagerfield is an HoF player, considrered one of the greats of the modern era and he wasn't a top earner, only had around 1500TPE, and honestly JSS sucks lmao. So he was looked upon as a top tier player considered one of the best of all time, worthy of the HoF, and heralded by Hamilton and wanted by all teams. So sim results matter and are incredibly important and teams NEED players who perform well. It's not all about locker room
Big issue here, is that sim results aren't the be all end all in the J. In your first year in the J you are a 155-250TPE player during the season, and some players are 4th liners in the J or are playing on bad teams that cause them to have worse stats. You have another 10x the TPE to earn in your career, meaning that you scoring 30 points for example in the J doesn't mean much when your build will change 10x over during your career as you grow. Unfortunately it's just the symptom of having guys drafted after 1 seasons in the J (doing more than that would cause a lot more players to go inactive). The biggest thing for GM's becomes team fit, positional fit, and TPE earning speed. Those are going to be the biggest factor for teams moving forward for who will be the best players and who will be able to be on their team for the next 10-15 seasons, which is going to be down to more than 1 season in the J
Realistically, recreates may go before you because they have had that past success showing they can build successful players rather than the fit in the LR. Keenan, for example, was selected by SFP first overall last year. While he's a recreate, he actually has no history with SFP or with Henrik or Smith. He happened to be a big earner, and had past success. That's the big thing with former players is that past success, so GM's tend to pick them because they are safer than a new player (but maybe not as possible at being quite as good).
I agree that disconnect is huge on the fact that sim success doesn't matter in the J year 1. But sim success will be massive when we get into the SHL. You will be coveted if you can make a good build and be a fantastic player in the sim regardless of anything else. So don't let people tell you it doesn't matter 100%. Unfortunately just doesn't matter quite as much with 155-250 builds since so much will change over the next 10-15 seaosns of your career in terms of build
I appreciate you taking the time to elaborate. This was an insightful post, really
04-04-2021, 01:46 AMJumpierPegasus Wrote: First of all, incredibly excited to have you be a part of the SFP locker room.
I think the disconnect you are feeling makes sense, you look at your success in the sim, and you see a player that would be a top 5 player based on that. I think people telling you that sim results don't matter are explaining it the wrong way. Sim results do really matter they are incredibly important, and teams want players who have good builds and perform well in the sim. Flacko Lagerfield is an HoF player, considrered one of the greats of the modern era and he wasn't a top earner, only had around 1500TPE, and honestly JSS sucks lmao. So he was looked upon as a top tier player considered one of the best of all time, worthy of the HoF, and heralded by Hamilton and wanted by all teams. So sim results matter and are incredibly important and teams NEED players who perform well. It's not all about locker room
Big issue here, is that sim results aren't the be all end all in the J. In your first year in the J you are a 155-250TPE player during the season, and some players are 4th liners in the J or are playing on bad teams that cause them to have worse stats. You have another 10x the TPE to earn in your career, meaning that you scoring 30 points for example in the J doesn't mean much when your build will change 10x over during your career as you grow. Unfortunately it's just the symptom of having guys drafted after 1 seasons in the J (doing more than that would cause a lot more players to go inactive). The biggest thing for GM's becomes team fit, positional fit, and TPE earning speed. Those are going to be the biggest factor for teams moving forward for who will be the best players and who will be able to be on their team for the next 10-15 seasons, which is going to be down to more than 1 season in the J
Realistically, recreates may go before you because they have had that past success showing they can build successful players rather than the fit in the LR. Keenan, for example, was selected by SFP first overall last year. While he's a recreate, he actually has no history with SFP or with Henrik or Smith. He happened to be a big earner, and had past success. That's the big thing with former players is that past success, so GM's tend to pick them because they are safer than a new player (but maybe not as possible at being quite as good).
I agree that disconnect is huge on the fact that sim success doesn't matter in the J year 1. But sim success will be massive when we get into the SHL. You will be coveted if you can make a good build and be a fantastic player in the sim regardless of anything else. So don't let people tell you it doesn't matter 100%. Unfortunately just doesn't matter quite as much with 155-250 builds since so much will change over the next 10-15 seaosns of your career in terms of build
I appreciate you taking the time to elaborate. This was an insightful post, really
Classic @JumpierPegasus saying what I said but better & earlier. When will this tyranny end :(
04-04-2021, 01:36 AMDollaBill Wrote: Bottom line: I stumbled across the SHL while searching for an NHL GM Sim to join. GM Sims where the only sims I've experienced in the past. I gave this site a chance and enjoyed getting into the progression of my created player. I'm very competitive and became dedicated to seeing him succeed in the game. I'm just now being told that his success as a player in the sim doesn't matter nearly as much as how GMs evaluate me and my contributions as a handler.
I didn't join the SHL to be evaluated as a handler. I joined the SHL for what happens in the sim. I can't believe I'm being viewed as a leper because of it.
I have a lot to reevaluate right now. In the meantime, I feel the SHL rookie guide needs to be vastly amended.
Hey, I was super disappointed after my first SMJHL draft so I get what you're coming from. I was on tilt.
However, I don't want you to misconstrue what people have said. Success as a player in the sim at the J level in your rookie season doesn't matter as much because rookies get uneven levels of playing time and roles on their teams, in addition to the fact that was mentioned before which is that the player build that you'll join the SHL at (~800 TPE) is vastly different than the one you're playing with at ~250 TPE during the J regular season. It's really hard to correlate a good player from a rookie SMJHL season to their entire SHL career.
Once you get to the SHL level, success as a player in the sim obviously matters a lot more to your value but year 1 is less about on-ice success and more about your development as a member overall. To be honest, I had you pegged as a mid-late first round talent. You've written some really strong media pieces and have built up an impressive bank account.
It happens every year, players fall. Some GM's do go safer with their friends who have less TPE however that's not a you problem - that's a them problem. If they're going to potentially handicap their team then let them. Your team steals you in the early second AND gets someone else in the first round who's also first round calibre. Great, now you're set up really well for the future. Toronto had this a couple seasons ago getting SFresh & Tylar who are two of the top earners in their class in the early first & second respectively. They came 2nd in the heaviest division in the league last year.
It's been a long night and my brain isn't working nearly anywhere it should be. I don't know if any of what I wrote makes sense. End of the day, what I'm trying to say is that yes the league has an on & off-ice component. As a known commodity, some GM's favour recreates as inherently safer because you'll know vastly more about them than anything you can gain from a week or so of scouting new prospects. However, this doesn't stand for all GM's (as Keygan's pointed out) & this means literally nothing. You have an entire SHL career ahead of you to read media articles about how 'you're the biggest steal of the S59 draft' and how they 'can't believe you slipped to the 2nd round'. Pretty dope shit.
The "drafting friends" bit still bothers me, (as a competitor), but I get it. I appreciate your response. Priority of player performance in the sim matters to me. I keep referring back to my intent when joining the site. I was to play well in the sim and win championships. I value what happens in the LR, but it is all secondary to me in this game.
As the first GM to take a recreate, I can also say I drafted for position and I took someone I have never played with or GM'd for. The most interaction we likely would have had was when I was an updater. Honestly I had a blank slate for just about anyone unless I have a bad personal experience with them. In regards to my pick at 3, I have had them high on my list since their J draft and all of my scouts told me fantastic things about user and how they would fit into our plans moving forward.
If I was going pure nepotism I would have drafted my immediate prior Co-GM who is also a Defender who went later in the first.
But I'm also not going to lie and say personality isn't a factor in scouting, it just simply is based on how the league is set up. There have been people with amazing players that would drive all the actives away and then you suddenly don't have a team to work with anymore. Finding someone who fits your LR culture is also a big boon as they can help drive activity in others. I know I would definitely not have stayed active if I didn't make friends with the people in my LR. A lot of the long term successful teams in the SHL come from having a strong LR because then people are less likely to quit, more likely to push each other, and give them reasons to care outside of sim results if that's not doing it for them.
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