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***luke*** · 01-26-2023, 05:41 PM

Not to continue to add onto the hate

I just find it funny that 2 of the Noms for the Richan(Most improved btw) were already over a point per game the season before. Wouldn't it make more sense to show players who were shit and turned it around more than someone who was already elite -> even more elite?

***HabsFanFromOntario*** · 01-26-2023, 05:43 PM

01-26-2023, 05:33 PMspooked Wrote:
01-26-2023, 05:09 PMHabsFanFromOntario Wrote: ...Surkhi-Ze'ev played on an Edmonton team that barely made the playoffs, finished second in scoring and outscored Baltisberger in 2 minutes less of ice time per game...
You aren't wrong to be confused in general as Ben had a great season just from eyeballing them specifically cause they mentioned a bit about them being disappointed about not getting nommed in the Van LR so I looked at their stats earlier (and I had to do some rookie voting stuff for all star committee a while ago), but this specific point is a bit misleading when you consider those 2 mins per game are Baltisberger's PK minutes per game which aren't exactly high scoring opportunities, which I would assume also came into the formula for his nom to some degree as well?

Even if true, the flat statline is better. Goals > assists should be an incontrovertible fact.

***CampinKiller*** · 01-26-2023, 05:54 PM

01-26-2023, 05:33 PMspooked Wrote:
01-26-2023, 05:09 PMHabsFanFromOntario Wrote: ...Surkhi-Ze'ev played on an Edmonton team that barely made the playoffs, finished second in scoring and outscored Baltisberger in 2 minutes less of ice time per game...
You aren't wrong to be confused in general as Ben had a great season just from eyeballing them specifically cause they mentioned a bit about them being disappointed about not getting nommed in the Van LR so I looked at their stats earlier (and I had to do some rookie voting stuff for all star committee a while ago), but this specific point is a bit misleading when you consider those 2 mins per game are Baltisberger's PK minutes per game which aren't exactly high scoring opportunities, which I would assume also came into the formula for his nom to some degree as well?

Piggybacking on HFFO above, you've also got the fact that Baltisberger was playing with better players on the 1st line than guys playing on the 3rd line/EDM were

Bfine · 01-26-2023, 05:55 PM

How did Juke not get a Khan nom smh

Grapehead · 01-26-2023, 05:58 PM

It can't be a coincidence that every season these threads are full of bitching, right?

***SpartanGibbles*** · 01-26-2023, 05:59 PM

01-26-2023, 05:58 PMGrapehead Wrote: It can't be a coincidence that every season these threads are full of bitching, right?

New Season, same old SHL

*Carpy48* · 01-26-2023, 06:01 PM

01-26-2023, 03:04 PMbbjygm Wrote:
01-26-2023, 02:58 PMJKortesi81 Wrote: Not purple enough, awards are a sham.

Am I not... purpley enough for the purple club?

I heard we were talking about purple. I'm in.

***SpartanGibbles*** · 01-26-2023, 06:07 PM

01-26-2023, 05:54 PMCampinKiller Wrote:
01-26-2023, 05:33 PMspooked Wrote: You aren't wrong to be confused in general as Ben had a great season just from eyeballing them specifically cause they mentioned a bit about them being disappointed about not getting nommed in the Van LR so I looked at their stats earlier (and I had to do some rookie voting stuff for all star committee a while ago), but this specific point is a bit misleading when you consider those 2 mins per game are Baltisberger's PK minutes per game which aren't exactly high scoring opportunities, which I would assume also came into the formula for his nom to some degree as well?

Piggybacking on HFFO above, you've also got the fact that Baltisberger was playing with better players on the 1st line than guys playing on the 3rd line/EDM were

I mean if we are going to start going down that logic, do we take into account the strength of the team that they played on too. A rookie on a lower TPE team has to step up a lot more if than someone on a better team.

We could also look at Baltisberger being on the 1st line should be facing tougher competition than someone on a 3rd line.

I'm not even saying they should win, but I think there's a hot crop of young talent that all did relatively well so the noms seem to have come down to what different voters saw as a better performance. With human voters that's always going to be the case.

***By-Tor*** · 01-26-2023, 06:08 PM

Forever grateful for the nom :prayerhands:

Many others just as deserving.

Credit to enigmatic, Merica, and tweedledunn for sigs

***FuzzSHL*** · 01-27-2023, 02:14 AM

I got tagged so I'm stopping by to sat this:

For goalies, sv% >>>> GAA. Almost always. Just because you have the lowest GAA doesn't mean you're the best goalie, it just means the team in front of you did really well to limit the chances against. Now, if you have the lowest GAA and one of the highest sv%, that's different. Context matters, but for most cases, sv% should be the deciding factor.

Rookies on high TPE teams will always have an easier time at producing than rookies on a low TPE team. We see it all the time even with high TPE players, the better linemates you have the more likely it is you will produce offensively.

If there are a lot of good rookies, the ability to narrow down a list to just 3, let alone 1, will be difficult. Not much can be done with a limited ballot pool.

Point-per-game players who improve their point total and end up on the Most Improved ballot should not be as common as they are. They are good players, that much is known.

A lot to improve upon, not much opportunity to actually improve upon it.

Aleksi Kettu

*Carpy48* · 01-27-2023, 03:40 AM

01-27-2023, 02:14 AMFuzzSHL Wrote: For goalies, sv% >>>> GAA. Almost always. Just because you have the lowest GAA doesn't mean you're the best goalie, it just means the team in front of you did really well to limit the chances against. Now, if you have the lowest GAA and one of the highest sv%, that's different. Context matters, but for most cases, sv% should be the deciding factor.

I'm probably missing something because...wait that isn't there case here? I thought it was absolutely clear that GAA (and technically also wins and maybe shutouts) is a team stat more than it is a individual goalie's stat. I should look for some old award nominee thread where I wrote about the same thing. When giving out McBride noms never only look for the most wins and the best GAA because that's definitely not up to the individual. Some goalie get hundreds of shots more (obviously same amount of games played) and if they have a better sv% than a goalie on another team who has seen fewer shots and obviously a smaller GAA then it's important. Definitely context matters.

Shylo_Moxii · 01-27-2023, 04:11 AM

01-27-2023, 02:14 AMFuzzSHL Wrote: I got tagged so I'm stopping by to sat this:

For goalies, sv% >>>> GAA. Almost always. Just because you have the lowest GAA doesn't mean you're the best goalie, it just means the team in front of you did really well to limit the chances against. Now, if you have the lowest GAA and one of the highest sv%, that's different. Context matters, but for most cases, sv% should be the deciding factor.

Rookies on high TPE teams will always have an easier time at producing than rookies on a low TPE team. We see it all the time even with high TPE players, the better linemates you have the more likely it is you will produce offensively.

If there are a lot of good rookies, the ability to narrow down a list to just 3, let alone 1, will be difficult. Not much can be done with a limited ballot pool.

Point-per-game players who improve their point total and end up on the Most Improved ballot should not be as common as they are. They are good players, that much is known.

A lot to improve upon, not much opportunity to actually improve upon it.

Ok so some context here. Not only are we looking at this broad rubric of Sv% GAA Wins I can also say we’ve looked at GSAA and SO and SHA. It’s not like this is being decided based solely on 1 category here. I can understand the basis for this text and while I agree we are a bit further in-depth at analyzing. Even the past couple seasons we’ve taken into consideration a player being on a good team v a bad team for goalies and other award nominations.

Rookies is a very interesting area to partake in I’ll defer this one to you, but I’ll also mention the discussions this led to said it was Olubori definitively and you could pretty much take your pick of Baltisberger, Faker, Biemanns, Iskandrov, Surkhi-Ze’ev, and Soderberg-Tremblay which all had nominations this year I will say.

as far as Aidan Richan is concerned, I myself am trying to figure out in a bit more detail a broader rubric to help fix this problem of points being the only thing we work on. I want to get into more advanced stats for players and try to be more inclusive with players because this has very much become a forward based award, much of the same with the MVP voting.

as always I thank you for the critique and opinions on how to fix the system. I am looking forward to setting up another suggestions tab with an actual form.

Henrik · 01-27-2023, 04:25 AM

01-26-2023, 02:58 PMJKortesi81 Wrote: Not purple enough, awards are a sham.

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement

**OrbitingDeath** · 01-27-2023, 06:52 AM

01-26-2023, 05:58 PMGrapehead Wrote: It can't be a coincidence that every season these threads are full of bitching, right?

No matter what will be done, isn't this the outcome for everything these days?

*CementHands* · 01-27-2023, 12:30 PM

Lol Imagine shattering all time defensive points records and not even getting an mvp nod.
I guess no defense should ever expect an opportunity at that award.

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