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***luke*** · 03-16-2024, 06:29 AM

Who did you have different players in the top 5

Ron Mexico

@RomanesEuntDomus - Set the standard for decades to come and managed to combine peak performance and longevity in an era, where most peoples peaks were only a few seasons short.

@Muerto - 4xKarpotsov 3xKhan 2xMexico 2xMcDonald wins and 7 noms, 7x all star. The original superstar of the league

@Rich - 4 time MVP winner. Probably the leagues first real superstar forward. Impossible to compare to players in any of the more modern eras, but his dominance in his time earns him a place among the top 5.

@Tomen - The OG goat and really was the undisputed one until Visser and Garb came along. It's a pretty shorter ish career nowadays but for his time it truly was quite the remarkable and long career. 4 MVP trophies and 3 more noms just for the Mexico award. Only downside is that it was against less competition.

@luke - The OG GOAT of the league. Ron Mexico only suffered from being an old man in a league that wasnt as competitive or well documented enough. Not a lot of people from when he played are still active here. But he is deserving of being in the top 5 forever. That amount of wins and nominations in the Ron Mexico alone is impressive.

Jason Visser
@RomanesEuntDomus - A dominant forward throughout much of his career, he didn't quite reach Garbonzo's positional dominance for me, but was still the best forward of a whole generation of players and one who you could even argue was underrated for much of his career, as his name wasn't discussed all that much as one of the all-time-greatest while he was still playing.

@Tomen - best forward of all time

@Muerto - 3x Khan 3xMcDonald 2xMexico, 3x 70+ points

@Rich - For Visser, 3 of the 14 highest scoring season in this ear, including the 2nd highest scoring season. The only other name to appear more than once in that list is VLAD, who had 2 of the 14. The first of these 3 seasons was S36, the last in S43. Almost his entire career, certainly the most successful seasons, took place after a rule was put in place to cut down on player ice time. His best season was actually one of his lowest TOI seasons. If we had a way to reasonably compare seasons across eras, I think his S41 would stack up against any season.

@Leafs4ever - Between performance and longevity, Visser was a monster in the SHL. He stood out in a time where it was hard to break through the top, but he was one of the reasons for it.

@JayWhy - While Mexico was a pioneer of the origins in the SHL, Visser was a pioneer of the new SHL. The league was firmly planted and successful, and now we had someone who showed just how high you could go. Visser took things to a new level that nobody knew was possible, and then went beyond that too.

Alonzo Garbanzo

@RomanesEuntDomus - The GOAT Defenseman and, in my opinion at least, the best SHL Player of all time up until this point. His trophy case and number of all-star appearances speak for themselves, all the while he remained a useful player for more than 20 seasons.

@Muerto - The greatest defenseman ever 10x Stevens nom 5x winner greatest scoring stats ain

@Rich - The undisputed best defenseman in league history, in my eyes. Mexico winning Dman, 5 time Stevens winner, still among the all time assists leaders. Absolutely has a case for best player of all time.

@Leafs4ever - Best defenceman in SHL history, controlled the ice every shift. Won everything you could and was elite for 24 seasons, ridiculous.

@JayWhy - Defense is a sadly disrespected position in the history of the SHL. Garbanzo is someone who was willing to do the hard work of leading a team in a position that just doesn't give you the same love from the league. If it weren't for a couple freaks of nature, he could easily be the top dog and I don't disparage anybody who thinks he is. He deserves his flowers.

@Tomen - best defenseman of all time

@luke - The best defenseman of all time. To get that amount of points by a defenseman. So close to being the only defenseman in the 1000 point club. Still to this day as FHM inflated points across the board. To have Garbanzo keep the #1 spot by a wide wide margin is still very impressive to this day

Taylor McDavid

@Rich - Not the most elite scorer, but he played with an edge that none of the other guys at the top did. He ended his career as all-time hits leader by a significant margin. This record would stand for 25 seasons. To this day he remains 3rd all time. His S21 and S24 performances stack up very well against more elite scorers. His S24 was an all time great season for a player who played a physically dominant game. Maybe I overrate him because I like physical play, but I think he belongs among the best ever.

@Tomen - A very nice long career and the best power forward of his times and it wasn't even close. His career hits record took quite a while to be broken and that wasn't even the primary focus of his play.

Theo Kane

@Muerto - 2x sweeping all the awards, was dominant at his peak

@Rich - Theo Kane, for me, is a case of a player who at his best was maybe the best player ever. In S29 and S33, he was unquestionably the best player in the league. He won the Karpotsov, MacDonald, Dar, Mexico, and Khan in both of those seasons. The seasons between and surrounding weren't as impressive, but far from bad. On top of that he played a dominant physical game from S29 to S35, which I appreciate more than most.

@Leafs4ever - Just consistently elite for so, so long. He was an elite two-way player and was the best at his position multiple times in different roles. Scoring titles, goal scoring titles, MVPs, Dars, he did it all.

@JayWhy - When I think back on my time in the SHL, Theo Kane is a person I immediately think of. He was always in the discussion as the best in the league at the time. He was an incredible person and teammate. I may be somewhat biased, but Theo was a major character in the story of the SHL for me.

Joe McKeil

@RomanesEuntDomus - A player that most people seem to have forgotten about at this point, because the users sting in the league was dominant, but also relatively brief. He simply had one great player, was one of the best of the best over a long period of time and then left and never made a second player. And since it also was before the Discord era, he also never really stayed in touch with anyone, so there aren't a lot of people around anymore who sing his praises. At the time of his retirement however, his statline was one that had not been seen before, he had plenty of hardware to his name and did all that while being a GM for a bunch of those years, who didn't always prioritize putting his own player into situations that pumped up his stats, but was about team success first and foremost.

@Tomen - One of the longest careers of his time with quite the extraordinary peak + two way/power forward play that netted him a few dar wins/noms.

Kristian Eriksson

@RomanesEuntDomus - Aside from the fact that the user might have the most impressive player building record of all SHL members period, Eriksson was also a great player in his own right. One of the premier power forward of his day, who was one of the first players, if not the first (double check plz), to break 1000 points, while also playing a great physical game. Individual hardware is not all that impressive, but his consistency was outstanding. A 23 season career, with not a single season under 20 points and 19 out of those 23 years above 30 points and 13 seasons over 40 points, it doesn't get much better thant that. We aren't just talking about a player who held on for dear life to make it over 20 seasons, but who was a useful player for each and every season he spend in the league, be it his rookie or his twilight years.

Aaron Wilson

@Muerto - most goals most assists most points 6x challenge cup + multiple awards and all stars

@Leafs4ever - He didn’t win as many awards as the others, but man was he crazy consistent. Always among the top 3-5 every season, and quietly racked up the points in the SHL. Also, being the best player on 6 Challenge Cup teams is incredible. I think he flew under the radar, but the consistent performances has him as the points leader in SHL history.

@Tomen - Just bonkers career numbers together with a really nice trophy case.

@JayWhy - You cannot talk about the history of the SHL without talking about Aaron, whether for good or for bad, you have to respect his absolute love and dedication to the league. He faced a lot of criticism, and persevered and while I may not have personally liked him, I can respect all that he did for the league heading into a new era in it's history.

@luke - Being #1 in points right now, and by a wide margin is impressive. No matter how you take his out of sim actions, Aaron Wilson deserves to be on this list, deserving to be in the top 5. The longevity + peak is nothing you can argue about

Chris Partlow

@luke - I was the only person to put another defenseman besides Garbanzo in the top 5. I think there should be more consideration for the players like Partlow and Darian Scherbluk as well. But for Partlow, he is the only other player to compete with Garbanzo at preakness for a defenseman. With 3 Stevens wins and 7 more nominations. He was also a rare defenseman to win the Ron Mexico, as well as a nomination for the Mexico too.

Retrospectives

Which player or players would you move up in the rankings and Why?

@RomanesEuntDomus - Kristian Eriksson Jakub Aittokallio Harry Carpet Mike Honcho Ivo Willems Roberto Martucci Strom Chamberlain Luke Atmey Riley Raycroft Robert Phelps Maximilian Wächter

@Muerto - Scherbluk could probably be argued top 10, also i feel there was not much love given to defenemen from the FHM era I think Khanwald, Kinsiger, Bjerg or even Makela should have got more consideration

@Rich - Theo Morgan. If you look at some of the players who share similar point and goal totals to him, he has substantially fewer games played than all of them. I also think that at his best he was one of the best of all time.

@Leafs4ever - I’d move Mexico to number 1 for all the reasons listed before.

@JKortesi81 - Esa Anrikkanen. Biased as hell, but Esa was a mainstay in this league, won 5 cups, got over 1000 points, first to 2000 TPE, and i feel he could've been ranked a bit higher.

@Tomen - Brick Wall, even tho it's one of the more shorter careers they had quite the outstanding one and deserve to be named in the top 75 rather than just honorable mentions

@JayWhy - Myself(Jakub Aittokallio). I need to be the old me sometime, this is it. I think a goalie should be in the top 10, and I think that should be me because of my historic feats while being active. I think goalies overall often get disrespected by the league, and it's fair that others don't value the position like I do. The first goalie MVP and effectively the cause of a shift in how earnings worked as we immediately installed a new scale system never seen before, my multiple records held, the most Cup wins for a goalie at the time of retirement. I understand others will disagree, but I have to stand up for myself here.

@luke - I think Brick Wall deserves to be in the top 75. The amount of award wins and how crucial he was to Montreal during the S60’s. The only knock was the lack of playoffs. As for others, I would say I think the goalies should all be bumped by like 5 rankings at points. Having the highest at 15 is a bit weird for me. Then I think someone like FR Finn-Rhys is someone who I think should be in the honorable mentions more. The 1 Biscuit win and 4 noms. Ron Mexico nom, Stevens win, and Stevens nom put him up there with a lot of players. But only 436 points in 762 games played I think put him back for most people's eyes.

@WannabeFinn - Probably would’ve moved Konstantin Selich up because of how dominant a player he has been, but his current active status hampers that

Which player or players would you move down in the rankings and why

@RomanesEuntDomus - Theo Morgan Lord Pretty Flacko Michael McFadden (seems all over peoples lists) Jason Due Carter O'Callahan Konstantin Selich Mike Izzy Chris York Brick Wall Flacko Lagerfield Jay McDonald Chico Salmon Nathan Russell

@Muerto - there's maybe a bit too much love given to the S20s and 30's. Kane in retrospect I ranked too high I'd probably swap him and Randleman. Honestly I'm not sure Wollker really deserved to be there

@Rich - Jonathan Lundberg. Lack of awards and all star selections makes it a tough sell. About all he has going for him is his position on the hits leaderboard, which I don't think is enough to be top 75. I think he fits in the top 100, but not 75.

@Leafs4ever - I’d move Harry Carpet down behind Mike Honcho. Honcho has the McBrides and nominations, but trumps Carpet with the Razov, Challenge Cup, and Honchos.

@JKortesi81 - I obviously ranked Aaron Wilson lower than the others. Being able to manipulate the league and benefitting from it isn't exactly a reason to get up in the rankings.

@Tomen - Maybe Danny Foster, I still think given the historical context of being the only Enforcer to actually be above 1k TPE in the STHS era they really showed that there is a time and place for that player type and did set multiple record in seasonal hits and they didn't just set them a tad higher they blew the previous record numbers out of the water. If the career was longer I think it would be even more recognized around the SHL history nerds but alas giving him the lowest tier spot here might have been the downfall for Brick Wall not getting in which is a shame.

@JayWhy - Michael McFadden. I just talked about needing to respect goalies, but there's one thing I care more about and that's activity. McFadden competed for most of his records as an inactive husk just being held onto for a cheap contract, and while I liked Deezy the person, I think others were more engaged and deserve a higher ranking for that.

@luke - I think someone like Luke Atmey should be lowered a bit. Personally I think what he achieved is still in the top 75 for sure, but looking at the players that made it in around him, I dont know if he deserved to be in at 52. Maybe in the 60’s instead.

@WannabeFinn - Mike Izzy because he was overrated

Name 1 player who you felt should have been in the top 75 and your reasoning behind it

@RomanesEuntDomus - Maximilian Wächter, A premier power forward of his time, didn't win a lot of individual awards, but few players combined physical prowess and offensive output as well as he did in his prime. Multiple seasons in the 50 points and 200 Hits range, which is a mark barely anyone ever reached in the STHS era.

@Muerto - I ranked Theo Kondos quite high but he did not receive many votes otherwise. He is top 10 career scorer and had 12x50 pt seasons to start his career, a big part of Chicago's success

@Rich - Probably Brick Wall. Being a 4 time McBride winner is outstanding. Getting a Mexico nom in the current era is notable for a goalie. He barely missed, and I think maybe he shouldn't have.

@Leafs4ever - I actually think Philip Winter could be there in the top 75. Has a McDonald, Mexico, and Karpotsov trophy. He finished 56th in all time scoring as well. He could for sure sneak into the bottom of the list.

@JKortesi81 - Corey Bearss will always remain the most underrated player in SHL history, but was very important to the Jets franchise.

@Tomen - Brick Wall, even tho it's one of the more shorter careers they had quite the outstanding one and deserve to be named in the top 75 rather than just honorable mentions

@JayWhy - Nathan Russell is someone who probably should've inched in. They had a pretty storied career as a two way forward which doesn't get the love it deserves. They had a very dominant stretch, maybe not the best but I think that play deserves a spot around 70ish.

@luke - Already mentioned Brick Wall and FR Finn-Rhys. But another player I think should have been in the top 75 is Beaujeaux Biscuit or Tig Murphy. For Biscuit, what held him back was lack of awards at all. But he was the backbone to West Kendall’s success in the S40’s. For Tig it was lower games played. With only 666 games played, Tig had 458 points as a defenseman. He also won the Biscuit once and was nominated twice more. Same with the Stevens, 1 win and 2 noms. If he was around more he would have made it.

@WannabeFinn - Viktor Marius for being a dominant two-way player with clutch playoff performances + the role he played in turning Buffalo around

What was the most difficult part of the rankings

@RomanesEuntDomus - The sheer volume of players as well as the very different eras and their very different statistical implications.

@Muerto - I think goaltenders are the hardest, so many different goalies had such amazing careers at different eras so trying to decide who are the top 5 to top 10 was very difficult. Also when you are trying to decide the last 10 or so players to put in, when obviously there are arguments for a lot of different players.

@Rich - Comparing eras, particularly STHS to FHM. STHS and FHM exist in completely different universes.

@Leafs4ever - Trying to separate the top 10-15 players. Everyone has a case for their spot so trying to compare different players and eras and sim engines is so, so tough

@JKortesi81 - The bottom part of the 75, because there are a LOT of players that could've made it.

@Tomen - The overall placing of the rankings really and trying to find a new balance between the different era since career numbers aren't the only thing you can look at. You really need to have some idea of the historical context and how the player stacked up in regards to their peers at the time and basically just compare how much better each player was against their peers and if you value that gap higher than the gap of the other players.

@JayWhy - Trying to keep bias out of it as best as possible. There are times I was never going to be completely unbiased, but my desire to put someone like Laraque Obama in really weighed on me at times.

@luke - The sheer amount of players to sift through. Making sure I didn't leave anyone off. Spent a bunch of time getting a top 125 list to then narrow down. Then after that shifting players up and down. Think it was hard to rank between STHS and FHM at points. Like we left 1000 point players off the list which is crazy. But there are a lot more 1000 point players now that dont deserve to be on the list as well. The list isnt perfect, but I think its one of the best ones any 9 people could come up with. To respect the earlier seasons of the league, and to include the newcomers as well.

@WannabeFinn - Trying to compare players from entirely different eras, with details ranging from which sim engine we used to how many teams and players existed in the league

**Lime** · 03-16-2024, 06:50 AM

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