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SabresFan · 09-21-2016, 01:29 PM

Rather than trying to talk about this all over the site I started this:

What was the original purpose behind the creation of the tampering rule? What problems was the tampering rule created to solve? Has the tampering rule worked well to solve those problems, or has it had unintended consequences that have damaged the league more than helped it? Is the amount of collusion and manipulation outside of the jurisdiction of the tampering rule actually greater than the amount that the tampering rule can possibly capture?

For those that say that I should change the rule rather than bitch about it, the first step in solving a problem is to identify it. I lack the rank and power to change the rule. I can only point out what I observe, try to understand it, and live with it the best I can if that is what I must do. I can't help a bit of levity when I see something that seems absurd to me.

Regards...

Hallsy · 09-21-2016, 01:33 PM

yo demand a trade to only x team we are gunna be stacked man. Lets win a challenge cup.

Baelor Swift · 09-21-2016, 01:36 PM

Quote:Originally posted by McJesus@Sep 21 2016, 12:33 PM
yo demand a trade to only x team we are gunna be stacked man. Lets win a challenge cup.

This. But I think fixing the salary structure to actually make it a real factor would be an improvement and/or better solution to the actual issue.

SabresFan · 09-21-2016, 01:39 PM

Quote:Originally posted by Baelor Swift@Sep 21 2016, 12:36 PM

This. But I think fixing the salary structure to actually make it a real factor would be an improvement and/or better solution to the actual issue.

I saw the salary cap idea in another thread and I think actually that could be a better solution. The devil is in the details. But yeah...thanks for some logic and sanity. This could go a long way to fixing the real issue.

tweedlebrumm · 09-21-2016, 01:39 PM

Quote:Originally posted by SabresFan@Sep 21 2016, 09:29 AM
Rather than trying to talk about this all over the site I started this:

What was the original purpose behind the creation of the tampering rule?  What problems was the tampering rule created to solve?  Has the tampering rule worked well to solve those problems, or has it had unintended consequences that have damaged the league more than helped it?  Is the amount of collusion and manipulation outside of the jurisdiction of the tampering rule actually greater than the amount that the tampering rule can possibly capture?

For those that say that I should change the rule rather than bitch about it, the first step in solving a problem is to identify it.  I lack the rank and power to change the rule.  I can only point out what I observe, try to understand it, and live with it the best I can if that is what I must do.  I can't help a bit of levity when I see something that seems absurd to me.

Regards...

This is how I've came to peace with the tampering rule - Tampering happens. If you read through the rulebook it is one of the only rules that has defined penalties. So, if you're going to tamper know how to it correctly (AKA not through site PMs, know that it's someone who isn't going to snitch aka the interest is mutual) if you can't follow these simple workarounds, don't tamper.

***Nike*** · 09-21-2016, 01:42 PM

This rule is a good rule and always has been. Sure, its manipulation in public threads take away some of the effectiveness, I won't disagree with that. But, quite frankly, its very easy to just not tamper and it takes collusion out of the league. It gives everyone a fair shake when a player is a free agent or a pending one. It keeps GMs and other players honest and helps build healthy offseason assimilation of players from one franchise to another.

If you've never been a GM, it's hard to see why tampering matters. But to GMs, this rule means everything. Just having the opportunity to talk with a player CAN make a difference. And if all player contact is totally legal, there WILL be times when GMs don't even get a fair shake when free agency opens or a player with a NMC/NTC hits the trade block.

.bojo · 09-21-2016, 01:45 PM

as probablydrunk mentioned it's impossible to fully control as people have ways. But the strict rules help. If you go through the extra trouble of tampering offsite, chances are you trust them enough already and it's already likely to happen regardless if you were somehow blocked from communicating.

We could maybe even reward people for bringing in cases to further that more, but I think it's ok for now.

Wasty · 09-21-2016, 01:45 PM

Tampering isn't allowed in real sports why would we allow it in our league? The rules are set and everyone should know them ESPECIALLY if you're a GM, there should be any discussion on it. GMs already have to deal with people going inactive or just leave for no reason, tampering needs to be cut off at the head and that's why we have the rules and penalties set for everyone to see.

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Abdeezy · 09-21-2016, 01:45 PM

Personally i dnt get the tampering rule, if I want to play with my friends on another team, im not gonna wait for them to ask me to come, before I do it. I'll just ask for a trade on my own.

Someone PMing me to come to their team, won't really change my mind. But maybe some people would be influenced.
I feel like Management shouldn't be allowed to contact other team's players, but im sure if Carey Price told Shea Weber at the world cup, yo come to MTL we can fuck shit up, and Weber asked to be traded, nothing is gonna happen to Price lol

Another rule I find really, really dumb, is the whole elimination of a rental player rule. Why can't I sign with a team that traded me?

Merica · 09-21-2016, 01:49 PM

It's absolutely necessary. It's increasingly frustrating that this is getting brought up. It's in place for a reason, and it does its job very effectively- go ahead and tamper if you want, if your caught you are fuckin destroying your team.

It's an incredibly simple rule with a very defined penalty.

SabresFan · 09-21-2016, 01:56 PM

Quote:Originally posted by Merica@Sep 21 2016, 12:49 PM
It's absolutely necessary.  It's increasingly frustrating that this is getting brought up. It's in place for a reason, and it does its job very effectively-  go ahead and tamper if you want, if your caught you are fuckin destroying your team.

It's an incredibly simple rule with a very defined penalty.

I'm truly sorry to have frustrated you, but you can sit there and type "it does its job very effectively" and show all the hatred for the brigade at the same time. I know you're at least smiling on the other end. You're just not that dumb, brother.

Maxy · 09-21-2016, 01:59 PM

Quote:Originally posted by Abdeezy@Sep 21 2016, 12:45 PM
Personally i dnt get the tampering rule, if I want to play with my friends on another team, im not gonna wait for them to ask me to come, before I do it. I'll just ask for a trade on my own.

Someone PMing me to come to their team, won't really change my mind. But maybe some people would be influenced.
I feel like Management shouldn't be allowed to contact other team's players, but im sure if Carey Price told Shea Weber at the world cup, yo come to MTL we can fuck shit up, and Weber asked to be traded, nothing is gonna happen to Price lol

Another rule I find really, really dumb, is the whole elimination of a rental player rule. Why can't I sign with a team that traded me?

Because to some people it's not about coming to play with friends. It's to eliminate people offering dumb things like GM positions, captaincy, bonuses ect. That the team who legitimately owns the rights to your player should rightfully have. What's the point of the draft, or free agency if you can be sweet talked at any time. Might as well eliminate contracts altogether and just let people play wherever they want whenever they want.

The rental rule is to make rentals valuable. The amount of people who would just resign with their old team would basically ruin free agency and make rentals have no value on the trade market imo.

JNH · 09-21-2016, 02:00 PM

Quote:Originally posted by SabresFan@Sep 21 2016, 12:56 PM

I'm truly sorry to have frustrated you, but you can sit there and type "it does its job very effectively"Â and show all the hatred for the brigade at the same time.Â I know you're at least smiling on the other end.Â You're just not that dumb, brother.

lil · 09-21-2016, 02:08 PM

Quote:Originally posted by Abdeezy@Sep 21 2016, 12:45 PM
Personally i dnt get the tampering rule, if I want to play with my friends on another team, im not gonna wait for them to ask me to come, before I do it. I'll just ask for a trade on my own.

Someone PMing me to come to their team, won't really change my mind. But maybe some people would be influenced.
I feel like Management shouldn't be allowed to contact other team's players, but im sure if Carey Price told Shea Weber at the world cup, yo come to MTL we can fuck shit up, and Weber asked to be traded, nothing is gonna happen to Price lol

Another rule I find really, really dumb, is the whole elimination of a rental player rule. Why can't I sign with a team that traded me?

The reason we can't make it GMs only is because if we did, that opens a huge loophole--a GM going to one of their players and saying "PM so and so, tell them we can offer then $X and top line time..."

Personally, I think the tampering rule could stand to be ratcheted down a little in severity of punishment, just as it's very harsh compared to other infractions. But as you can see in this thread, you're going to get pushback any time you talk about removing it, I think for good reason.

Hallsy · 09-21-2016, 02:09 PM

Quote:Originally posted by lil@Sep 21 2016, 11:08 AM

The reason we can't make it GMs only is because if we did, that opens a huge loophole--a GM going to one of their players and saying "PM so and so, tell them we can offer then $X and top line time..."

Personally, I think the tampering rule could stand to be ratcheted down a little in severity of punishment, just as it's very harsh compared to other infractions. But as you can see in this thread, you're going to get pushback any time you talk about removing it, I think for good reason.

'
There would be a paper trail of that PM doe. But I doubt someone actually goes thru pms on a regular basis and looks for tampering

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