08-30-2020, 10:21 PMgrok Wrote:

08-30-2020, 10:01 PMTheHockeyist Wrote: Very well. I am aware of the limitations of descriptivist grammar and how some Latin-based rules are no longer considered objectively correct. But still, at least the basic rules like punctuation usage and capitalization and word order are more consistent, barring some edge cases. This is what I'm complaining about.

the assumptions you're making that i have a problem with are

1. internet english is the same dialect as spoken or even written english. the high speed communications needs have transformed how internet users use english to communicate so much that there's almost no value in direct comparisons to "school english" and this is very well studied in the linguistic space

2. fitted is a native english speaker. this subcommunity in specific has a very wide reach to folks in non-english speaking countries, and even if fitted does speak english as a first language it's shitty to see that attitude as someone with limited english speaking skills

3. english writing has to have predictable grammar to be valuable. i'm not about to claim fitted's media is fine art, but i think it's dishonest to say his writing is incomprehensible. i am certainly able to read it and derive value from it, even if it's challenging for different reasons than i'm used to.

i'm not trying to fight and i've said my piece. i just hope you think about why you're making those assumptions, and how you could change the way you engage with both people and writing by challenging those assumptions.

1. For me at least, the two, even three, are essentially the same. I speak, write, and type pretty much identically with little overlap in style, regardless of register or medium. Most of what I use varies depending on who I'm talking to, and I default to a semi-formal neutral style like the one I'm typing in right now.

2. Not every native speaker has learned the art of grammar and composition. Where I'm from, it was drilled heavily. We had a lot of "do this, not that" and "in these cases, never do this". I didn't attend a grammar school, but jeez. When I was in elementary school and we had to grade others' writing, I covered the page in red ink. Even at a young age, I was correcting spelling, editing in semicolons, and all of that fun stuff. Most people who were graded by me ended up failing and complained that I was being an unfair grader. I was only strictly following the rubric provided.

3. Predictable grammar, yes. I will say that his standard of writing violates much of what I was taught. If he were a student, I would inevitably give him more red ink than black and fail him. It is very challenging to read, and one glance at it results in an urge to get out the red pen, no, the urge to dismiss the entire thing as "start over unless you want to fail".

Hopefully you see where I'm coming from.