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trella · 04-22-2025, 06:17 PM

04-22-2025, 05:31 PMWannabeFinn Wrote: We made it very, very clear that in order for us to improve the Free Agent process, teams need to have their agreements posted prior to the signing freeze so that we don’t enter into free agency with a bunch of “free agents” that aren’t, actually, UFAs. It’s an unfortunate circumstance, but the fact of the matter is that the manager had plenty of time to square away their contracts, and did not. What should have been done in this case was move the player to the FA section, and re-acquire their contract agreement after the signing freeze ended. There would have been no reason to remove the player from TBB’s possession had this been the fact. Unfortunately, TBB kept ahold of a free agent player and dissuaded any other team from making an offer when no contract had been posted, or signed, including after the 1st Day of games being played.

There’s something to be said for getting your clerical tasks done in a timely fashion. Unfortunately this is the result of not doing so, and it isn’t isolated to just Tampa Bay. Hopefully we can all learn from this and not make the same unfortunate mistakes in the future.

I definitely understand the importance of getting your tasks in on time, and I understand the need for a punishment, I’m not arguing against that at all, I just think there could have been a better way to go about it that doesn’t hurt a user over something they had no control over. Something like a cap fine on top of the draft pick forfeiture would have been more fair IMO.

Cheers for the response finn.

Thanks to @karey and @JSS for the sigs!

Former USA Fed Head, Carolina Kraken Co-GM, Tampa Bay Barracuda GM

Jobin · 04-22-2025, 06:19 PM

04-22-2025, 06:14 PMWannabeFinn Wrote: You’ve changed

I’m just bored

Jobin · 04-22-2025, 06:23 PM

04-22-2025, 06:19 PMJobin Wrote: I’m just bored

I do however think that using dinner or some other engagement as an excuse to lock a thread on the off chance that it gets out of hand is lazy moderation, but honestly my opinion shouldn’t matter. Might as well just immediately lock every punishment thread.

Zombiewolf · 04-22-2025, 06:25 PM

Dang this league has really gone down hill ever since WBF took over

Thank you Brandon, Fish, GeckoeyGecko, Karey, Kit, takethehorizon, and Ragnar for the sigs!
[Image: Pw202QP.jpeg]

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CementHands · 04-22-2025, 06:58 PM

04-22-2025, 05:00 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: I would like to reiterate, once again, that head office does not check budgets. Budget team checks team budgets. We check the rest of GM tasks (which we have been doing, and are in the process of finalizing). We very much were aware throughout the file building process that Tampa had an incomplete roster, and reminded them several times of that (though it was involving other players, not this particular one).

I mean sure, you have said that checking the budgets is no longer part of Head Office tasks, and squarely on the Budget team. That makes sense. Ultimately though head office is the last step and from an outsider perspective it seems like there are a bunch of roster or budget related issues. I group these together because they are similar. Head Office has expanded, and even has access to intern(s) I believe? Seems like a relatively simple fix would be to go through the budget sheet to see if the rostered players all show up on it. Unless I'm missing a point and all of these teams incorrectly included these players on their budget in which case this should be a much greater issue than simply rostering an un contracted player, but claiming to have agreed to a specific contract, where no agreement is in place and not only rostering and playing a player with no contract, but also hampering other teams from reaching out and potentially hamper player agency through Free Agency.
Reading the posts from Carnage in this thread however it sounds like there was an agreement in place though and just not posted, so that contract should not have shown up on the team budget page.

I feel like a relatively quick budget confirmation would have saved this issue where 20% of the league played games with a non compliant roster, and now players who may have even agreed to terms with their team are being forced to find a new home after the start of the season. That seems like a rather large disruption.

I'm just trying to provide ideas for actions that I think can help prevent these issues from occurring, because issues similar to this seem to be happening often

Thank you,
Krash

***WannabeFinn*** · 04-22-2025, 07:28 PM

04-22-2025, 06:58 PMCementHands Wrote: I mean sure, you have said that checking the budgets is no longer part of Head Office tasks, and squarely on the Budget team. That makes sense. Ultimately though head office is the last step and from an outsider perspective it seems like there are a bunch of roster or budget related issues. I group these together because they are similar. Head Office has expanded, and even has access to intern(s) I believe? Seems like a relatively simple fix would be to go through the budget sheet to see if the rostered players all show up on it. Unless I'm missing a point and all of these teams incorrectly included these players on their budget in which case this should be a much greater issue than simply rostering an un contracted player, but claiming to have agreed to a specific contract, where no agreement is in place and not only rostering and playing a player with no contract, but also hampering other teams from reaching out and potentially hamper player agency through Free Agency.
Reading the posts from Carnage in this thread however it sounds like there was an agreement in place though and just not posted, so that contract should not have shown up on the team budget page.

I feel like a relatively quick budget confirmation would have saved this issue where 20% of the league played games with a non compliant roster, and now players who may have even agreed to terms with their team are being forced to find a new home after the start of the season. That seems like a rather large disruption.

I'm just trying to provide ideas for actions that I think can help prevent these issues from occurring, because issues similar to this seem to be happening often

Thank you,
Krash

Bolded is actually the case here. All 4 teams with infractions had the players listed on their budget with specific dollar amounts, but none of them could produce evidence of a valid contract. Some teams were able to produce evidence of DMs in which the players agreed to terms, but those agreements expired on 3/31 at Noon EST without any contracts being posted to confirm the agreement prior to their expiration.

*Gwdjohnson* · 04-22-2025, 07:58 PM

04-22-2025, 02:43 PMsytarah Wrote: locked thread any% speedrun

#dinnersoonpartywhen

Joke's on you it's lasted 5 whole hours now since you piped up pal

Symmetrik · 04-22-2025, 07:59 PM

Like deadlines are there for a reason and some of these checklist kinds of tasks are so easy to do that it's just laziness to not do it.

But I do think in this case treating this as a Crasher rule violation is a little over the top, ultimately the players lose out and we're already in the regular season - it may be hard for them to get signed, especially to somewhere they would actually want to play (in this case, finding another team on a cup run), or in a similar role. It's very simple to just, do your tasks on time so I think a harsh punishment is fine but in this case I think it hurts the player as much as the team. It could realistically be better served with cap penalties equal to the value of the contract.

I think the last thing we would want is active players with no team to play on, so I disagree with forcing FA at this point in the season.

***sköldpaddor*** · 04-22-2025, 08:17 PM

04-22-2025, 07:59 PMSymmetrik Wrote: Like deadlines are there for a reason and some of these checklist kinds of tasks are so easy to do that it's just laziness to not do it.

But I do think in this case treating this as a Crasher rule violation is a little over the top, ultimately the players lose out and we're already in the regular season - it may be hard for them to get signed, especially to somewhere they would actually want to play (in this case, finding another team on a cup run), or in a similar role. It's very simple to just, do your tasks on time so I think a harsh punishment is fine but in this case I think it hurts the player as much as the team. It could realistically be better served with cap penalties equal to the value of the contract.

I think the last thing we would want is active players with no team to play on, so I disagree with forcing FA at this point in the season.

Oh we aren't treating it as a crasher rule violation. Crasher only remotely comes into this because some of the players had agreed to contracts, which were not posted by the deadline communicated to GMs. The punishment is not for anything having to do with the Crasher rule, the two main points here are that:
- the player was played without a contract (which is a specific rule violation)
- the player was also not moved to the FA section in the portal. This is a newer rule, but it's one that was very clearly communicated to GMs multiple times, with repeated pings.

The Crasher rule has only come up because it's been provided as an explanation as to why the consequences for either or both of those two problems shouldn't be issued.

I have talked to a couple people tonight about the unfortunate impact of this on players who've done nothing wrong themselves, and I agree, we hate that as well. But I'm not sure there's a better option (though I am absolutely all ears as to what one might be). GM salary fines are not enough of a deterrent - many GMs would be happy to pay half their salary if it means keeping a player from appearing on the FA list. And a pick penalty or a cap fine impacts not only the one player, but the entire team. I don't know if there's a good solution there.

***hockeyiscool*** · 04-22-2025, 08:30 PM

04-22-2025, 06:19 PMJobin Wrote: I’m just bored

the a stands for jobin

***sköldpaddor*** · 04-22-2025, 08:38 PM

04-22-2025, 06:23 PMJobin Wrote: I do however think that using dinner or some other engagement as an excuse to lock a thread on the off chance that it gets out of hand is lazy moderation, but honestly my opinion shouldn’t matter. Might as well just immediately lock every punishment thread.

honestly dude I was just trying to include the human element to it. Everybody on this site deserves to be able to take time to spend with their families, to go out and do stuff that isn't this website, without worrying if it's gonna burn down in the meantime. I locked the threads, on a suggestion from someone involved with at least one of the situations, because I thought it was a good way for none of us to have to worry about moderating the situation and to be able to disconnect and go do things offline. I am sorry if that makes me lazy, but to be completely transparent here, myself and most of the rest of head office were up until past midnight last night discussing these roster issues. We put so much time into this site, and you don't have to approve of the decisions we make, but I, and the members of head office, do deserve to be able to take time out and not worry about moderating squabbles from time to time.

***CampinKiller*** · 04-22-2025, 09:24 PM

I'm just saying 16 other teams got all their signings posted on time, so...

***Waters*** · 04-22-2025, 09:40 PM

04-22-2025, 07:28 PMWannabeFinn Wrote: Bolded is actually the case here. All 4 teams with infractions had the players listed on their budget with specific dollar amounts, but none of them could produce evidence of a valid contract. Some teams were able to produce evidence of DMs in which the players agreed to terms, but those agreements expired on 3/31 at Noon EST without any contracts being posted to confirm the agreement prior to their expiration.

we did not have the player listed on our budget with dollar amounts to be clear

FourFour · 04-22-2025, 09:41 PM

04-22-2025, 06:05 PMHallsy Wrote: Can I have some

How do you have so many medals

FourFour · 04-22-2025, 09:42 PM

04-22-2025, 06:25 PMZombiewolf Wrote: Dang this league has really gone down hill ever since WBF took over

rt down with Finn

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