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ztevans · 04-03-2019, 09:31 AM

04-03-2019, 09:19 AMGCool Wrote: Thanks for summarizing that well. I had no idea that the conversation progressed to that point.

So if all this is accurate -- and I'm fairly sure it is, because, why would you lie to me -- what's actually preventing the off-time from being condensed? I understand from a management team's perspective if they're simply waiting for this season to end so they can streamline it for next season. That makes the most sense, right? I mean we can talk in real time about how many days it's taking but we've simply never done this before, so it's sort of unreasonable to make a demand RIGHT NOW.

Apart from that, it seems like it's in everyone's best interest to cut the off days between rounds and make GMs abundantly aware of that fact so we can all be better prepared.

As far as I can tell from looking at the indices (I haven't been paying attention to the SHL playoffs much because I'm not in SHL yet) there ... isn't down time between rounds? At all? Game seven for HAM-TBB was an evening sim on Wednesday 3/27, and Game Ones for the quarterfinals were the next morning. That round ended on 3/31 in the AM, the next round started that night. I have no idea where the "down time between rounds" argument is coming from.

BarnabasCollins · 04-03-2019, 09:33 AM

Or you could do other things for eliminated teams like say endorsements or have a contest where they do something to earn entries or something similar. Or start double media week earlier. There needs to be something else for people to do and that has been needed for a long time, can't keep just looking at squeezing things to shorten times, need to look at activity driven things.

***JKortesi81*** · 04-03-2019, 09:33 AM

Absolutely not.

I personally spend a lot of time line testing and doing everything I can to make the right changes to help my team win. Each game, especially with Simon T, is incredibly important.

It's a lot easier to speed through the playoffs in NSFL and PBE because quite frankly, you aren't making many changes. I mean, NSFL is a one game scenario anyway, not a series, so that doesn't apply here. And for the PBE, you really aren't tweaking your lineup a ton, your defense stays the same for the most part, and your starting pitchers can't exactly pitch more often since they're exhausted.

I get the "waiting around" thing, i truly, truly do. Hell, i think I championed the whole "Battle for 1OA" in the SMJHL that was despised for this exact reason. . I think the better option here wouldn't be "speed through the playoffs", but "Let's run IIHF during the same time". It'll give players who aren't in the playoffs "Something to do".

We can cut down on the times between season end and playoff start, although those few days are to help many people get Playoff Brackets in and things of that nature. Same thing when the finals start and we take a minute to get Championship Week/Finals Predictions up. If we speed through that, the more casual player will more than likely miss them, causing them to be ever further behind in easy TPE to the "crazies".

I suggested before that we make IIHF mean more. Give the winners even more money. Every 4th year hold an "Olympics" that'll be a HUGE payout, or even TPE for that. That'll keep the interest of the players not in the playoffs.

In reality, worst case scenario is that we have each round go to 7 games. If we just make it so that we'd sim a series in 3 days no matter what (Games 1/2, 3/4, 5/6/7) we'd be done in 9 days of simming, which isn't too bad if everyone is paying attention to IIHF, or the draft lottery, or things of that nature. In this scenario, we'd sim Game 7 not too long after Game 6 as soon as the GMs are ready) Add in a couple of days for the predictions, and the offseason can be wrapped up in, at most, two weeks-ish, which isn't that awful. Remember, this used to take A LOT longer when we had significantly more PbPs and whatnot. We've already cut down the playoffs/offseason a TON from when i started here.

The point is, we spend about a month of sims to get to this point, and we aren't/shouldn't just start rushing through the playoffs "just to do it" because we live in an era of instant gratification. Other sim leagues have a much easier time having the ability to whip through playoffs. Hockey is just different.

***JKortesi81*** · 04-03-2019, 09:34 AM

04-03-2019, 09:33 AMBarnabasCollins Wrote: Or you could do other things for eliminated teams like say endorsements or have a contest where they do something to earn entries or something similar. Or start double media week earlier. There needs to be something else for people to do and that has been needed for a long time, can't keep just looking at squeezing things to shorten times, need to look at activity driven things.

This would help too.

Double media for playoff articles and stuff like that.

ztevans · 04-03-2019, 09:47 AM

04-03-2019, 09:33 AMJKortesi81 Wrote: It's a lot easier to speed through the playoffs in NSFL and PBE because quite frankly, you aren't making many changes. I mean, NSFL is a one game scenario anyway, not a series, so that doesn't apply here. And for the PBE, you really aren't tweaking your lineup a ton, your defense stays the same for the most part, and your starting pitchers can't exactly pitch more often since they're exhausted.

I get the "waiting around" thing, i truly, truly do. Hell, i think I championed the whole "Battle for 1OA" in the SMJHL that was despised for this exact reason. . I think the better option here wouldn't be "speed through the playoffs", but "Let's run IIHF during the same time". It'll give players who aren't in the playoffs "Something to do".

We can cut down on the times between season end and playoff start, although those few days are to help many people get Playoff Brackets in and things of that nature. Same thing when the finals start and we take a minute to get Championship Week/Finals Predictions up. If we speed through that, the more casual player will more than likely miss them, causing them to be ever further behind in easy TPE to the "crazies".

I suggested before that we make IIHF mean more. Give the winners even more money. Every 4th year hold an "Olympics" that'll be a HUGE payout, or even TPE for that. That'll keep the interest of the players not in the playoffs.

In reality, worst case scenario is that we have each round go to 7 games. If we just make it so that we'd sim a series in 3 days no matter what (Games 1/2, 3/4, 5/6/7) we'd be done in 9 days of simming, which isn't too bad if everyone is paying attention to IIHF, or the draft lottery, or things of that nature. In this scenario, we'd sim Game 7 not too long after Game 6 as soon as the GMs are ready) Add in a couple of days for the predictions, and the offseason can be wrapped up in, at most, two weeks-ish, which isn't that awful. Remember, this used to take A LOT longer when we had significantly more PbPs and whatnot. We've already cut down the playoffs/offseason a TON from when i started here.

The point is, we spend about a month of sims to get to this point, and we aren't/shouldn't just start rushing through the playoffs "just to do it" because we live in an era of instant gratification. Other sim leagues have a much easier time having the ability to whip through playoffs. Hockey is just different.

I trimmed a couple of things here because I mostly agree with your points but want to pose one counterpoint. I stand by your points regarding the NSFL and PBE playoffs, but where does the SBA fit into this? They do a one-week playoff and in my time there I've heard a lot more conversation about strategy changes throughout a season/within series and less 'this sim is bullshit' talk and a greater sense that those decisions actually matter. So why are they okay spending one week on playoffs after a six-week regular season? I can say it doesn't 'take away from the playoffs' that they are shorter in that league. If anything, I feel like there is more league-wide interest from those not in the finals because of the way they are presented, and because there isn't 'offseason fatigue' when the finals roll around.

I'm ABSOLUTELY not saying going to a one-week playoff in the SHL is the answer, but I don't see what it hurts GMs if we guarantee a seven-game series is over in three days to get four rounds of playoffs done in a two-week window since I'm sure we're not going back to an eight-team playoff.

With that said, I would absolutely endorse IIHF/WJC starting during playoffs, especially since those leagues often aren't using playoff updates in their index. Or media bonuses for playoff media, even though I'm sure that would get shot to hell out of fear of "more money entering the system."

*Tomen* · 04-03-2019, 09:51 AM

04-03-2019, 09:47 AMztevans Wrote: With that said, I would absolutely endorse IIHF/WJC starting during playoffs, especially since those leagues often aren't using playoff updates in their index. Or media bonuses for playoff media, even though I'm sure that would get shot to hell out of fear of "more money entering the system."

Just to put some clarification on this: Since the Updaters switched to the Spreadsheet the IIHF and WJC is simmed with the playoff rosters.

But overall I like the idea of starting IIHF and WJC at the same time as the playoffs and only allow the IIHF/WJC Gm's to play the players that are not actively playing in the playoffs. Would make IIHF more interesting and increase the money rewards for winning these international tournaments. The downside is though that most nations prolly won't have enough players if they can't use the players currently in the playoffs.

This would also further emulate realism.

Thank you all for the amazing sigs & player cards
Germany

3. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 5 (Maximilian Wachter, Alexis Metzler) at 16:25
5. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 6 (Steven Stamkos Jr., Brynjar Tusk) at 19:48
8. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 7 (Brynjar Tusk, Alexis Metzler) at 13:55
9. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 8 (Anton Fedorov, Mikelis Grundmanis) at 15:12
10. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 9 (Dickie Pecker) at 19:43 (Empty Net)

Mayuu · 04-03-2019, 09:53 AM

04-03-2019, 09:47 AMztevans Wrote:
04-03-2019, 09:33 AMJKortesi81 Wrote: It's a lot easier to speed through the playoffs in NSFL and PBE because quite frankly, you aren't making many changes. I mean, NSFL is a one game scenario anyway, not a series, so that doesn't apply here. And for the PBE, you really aren't tweaking your lineup a ton, your defense stays the same for the most part, and your starting pitchers can't exactly pitch more often since they're exhausted.

I get the "waiting around" thing, i truly, truly do. Hell, i think I championed the whole "Battle for 1OA" in the SMJHL that was despised for this exact reason. . I think the better option here wouldn't be "speed through the playoffs", but "Let's run IIHF during the same time". It'll give players who aren't in the playoffs "Something to do".

We can cut down on the times between season end and playoff start, although those few days are to help many people get Playoff Brackets in and things of that nature. Same thing when the finals start and we take a minute to get Championship Week/Finals Predictions up. If we speed through that, the more casual player will more than likely miss them, causing them to be ever further behind in easy TPE to the "crazies".

I suggested before that we make IIHF mean more. Give the winners even more money. Every 4th year hold an "Olympics" that'll be a HUGE payout, or even TPE for that. That'll keep the interest of the players not in the playoffs.

In reality, worst case scenario is that we have each round go to 7 games. If we just make it so that we'd sim a series in 3 days no matter what (Games 1/2, 3/4, 5/6/7) we'd be done in 9 days of simming, which isn't too bad if everyone is paying attention to IIHF, or the draft lottery, or things of that nature. In this scenario, we'd sim Game 7 not too long after Game 6 as soon as the GMs are ready) Add in a couple of days for the predictions, and the offseason can be wrapped up in, at most, two weeks-ish, which isn't that awful. Remember, this used to take A LOT longer when we had significantly more PbPs and whatnot. We've already cut down the playoffs/offseason a TON from when i started here.

The point is, we spend about a month of sims to get to this point, and we aren't/shouldn't just start rushing through the playoffs "just to do it" because we live in an era of instant gratification. Other sim leagues have a much easier time having the ability to whip through playoffs. Hockey is just different.

I trimmed a couple of things here because I mostly agree with your points but want to pose one counterpoint. I stand by your points regarding the NSFL and PBE playoffs, but where does the SBA fit into this? They do a one-week playoff and in my time there I've heard a lot more conversation about strategy changes throughout a season/within series and less 'this sim is bullshit' talk and a greater sense that those decisions actually matter. So why are they okay spending one week on playoffs after a six-week regular season? I can say it doesn't 'take away from the playoffs' that they are shorter in that league. If anything, I feel like there is more league-wide interest from those not in the finals because of the way they are presented, and because there isn't 'offseason fatigue' when the finals roll around.

I'm ABSOLUTELY not saying going to a one-week playoff in the SHL is the answer, but I don't see what it hurts GMs if we guarantee a seven-game series is over in three days to get four rounds of playoffs done in a two-week window since I'm sure we're not going back to an eight-team playoff.

With that said, I would absolutely endorse IIHF/WJC starting during playoffs, especially since those leagues often aren't using playoff updates in their index. Or media bonuses for playoff media, even though I'm sure that would get shot to hell out of fear of "more money entering the system."

I agree with both of you, having the playoffs running for two weeks would be optimal, IIHF to me at least feels pretty pointless and boring as it is right now.
The same teams are the top teams, maybe I just have not been around long enough to see the cycles.

RETIRED

ztevans · 04-03-2019, 09:55 AM

04-03-2019, 09:27 AMChris-McZehrl Wrote: I brought that up for only one reason. I know that members of eliminated teams are wait all the time for finished post season. If they have something more to enjoy it could help. On the other side the reg season would be more senseless in my opinion. because a weak team could lose the most balls case for the lottery. So this all were just ideas not more. I also know that many gone inactive because of too long offseasons (Post + offseason).

If we would have something interesting during that time we would make sure that those members wouldnt go inactive.

I liked the old IHF system for that. all players they were on the cup finals werent available for the IHF and the IHF started right on the same time as the cup finals started. but what you gonna do for the prior rounds? maybe you say you can nominate after each round eliminated players and the group stage goes 20 games. After 10 games the first round is over and you can nominate there the eliminated players from the first round. after the group stage so before medal round you can nominate all players they are eliminated after the second round.

if the right members come together I believe we could work something out that the eliminated members would have some more interesting things to follow and we keep there activity. But we also need then seperate simmers because you cant force JR or CampinKiller to do the sims for IIHF or WJC as example.

Especially with the recent IIHF expansion, I definitely don't think removing players from IIHF rosters, even if they are alive in the SHL playoffs, is a good idea. For some of your smaller nations, at that point you're just replacing actives with inactive for what? And would the SMJHL playoffs also factor into this?

crutch · 04-03-2019, 09:57 AM

- play-in series should definitely have days chopped from it. too many ppl waiting around for nothing

- keep games way that they are. GMs have to have the option to change lines between games imo

ztevans · 04-03-2019, 09:58 AM

04-03-2019, 09:53 AMMayuu Wrote: I agree with both of you, having the playoffs running for two weeks would be optimal, IIHF to me at least feels pretty pointless and boring as it is right now.
The same teams are the top teams, maybe I just have not been around long enough to see the cycles.

Yeah, don't give up on IIHF! lol Ireland is just having a run that frankly we hadn't seen at all since ... well, ever, honestly. With the shorter round robin and the single-elimination medal rounds, it is typically much more chaotic and every team has at least an outside shot, like the Norway team that won a silver medal with a 350 TPE goalie in S38.

ztevans · 04-03-2019, 10:01 AM

04-03-2019, 09:51 AMTomen Wrote: Just to put some clarification on this: Since the Updaters switched to the Spreadsheet the IIHF and WJC is simmed with the playoff rosters.

But overall I like the idea of starting IIHF and WJC at the same time as the playoffs and only allow the IIHF/WJC Gm's to play the players that are not actively playing in the playoffs. Would make IIHF more interesting and increase the money rewards for winning these international tournaments. The downside is though that most nations prolly won't have enough players if they can't use the players currently in the playoffs.

This would also further emulate realism.

Does this mean I'm going to be uncapped for IIHF? Hmm

.bojo · 04-03-2019, 10:01 AM

The IIHL helps with the offseason though, I thought. Like all the offseason duties being done while these games were being simmed.

.bojo · 04-03-2019, 10:02 AM

04-03-2019, 09:58 AMztevans Wrote:
04-03-2019, 09:53 AMMayuu Wrote: I agree with both of you, having the playoffs running for two weeks would be optimal, IIHF to me at least feels pretty pointless and boring as it is right now.
The same teams are the top teams, maybe I just have not been around long enough to see the cycles.

Yeah, don't give up on IIHF! lol Ireland is just having a run that frankly we hadn't seen at all since ... well, ever, honestly. With the shorter round robin and the single-elimination medal rounds, it is typically much more chaotic and every team has at least an outside shot, like the Norway team that won a silver medal with a 350 TPE goalie in S38.

maybe rest of world needs to just git gud. Ireland

ztevans · 04-03-2019, 10:06 AM

04-03-2019, 10:02 AM.bojo Wrote: maybe rest of world needs to just git gud.

Maybe you need bofa

Mayuu · 04-03-2019, 10:29 AM

04-03-2019, 09:58 AMztevans Wrote:
04-03-2019, 09:53 AMMayuu Wrote: I agree with both of you, having the playoffs running for two weeks would be optimal, IIHF to me at least feels pretty pointless and boring as it is right now.
The same teams are the top teams, maybe I just have not been around long enough to see the cycles.

Yeah, don't give up on IIHF! lol Ireland is just having a run that frankly we hadn't seen at all since ... well, ever, honestly. With the shorter round robin and the single-elimination medal rounds, it is typically much more chaotic and every team has at least an outside shot, like the Norway team that won a silver medal with a 350 TPE goalie in S38.

I mean, you can't opt out even if you wanted to.

RETIRED

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