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Tomasnz · 08-02-2019, 07:55 AM

They are a trap for new players and not useful in our SIM.

If someone wants to be enforcer like they can do it through existing builds anyway. No need to have that archetype be an option.

Evidence: two active players not being drafted because they were that build.

We have done those players a disservice by including it as an option.

Role playing one would still be super easy from the two way defender or defensive defenseman builds or some of the centre builds too.

JSS · 08-02-2019, 08:01 AM

p sure they got warnings from the mentors and smjhl intern soooooooooooo

Tomasnz · 08-02-2019, 08:03 AM

08-02-2019, 08:01 AMJSS Wrote: p sure they got warnings from the mentors and smjhl intern soooooooooooo

Soooooo.... We set them up to fail?

JSS · 08-02-2019, 08:04 AM

08-02-2019, 08:03 AMTomasnz Wrote:
08-02-2019, 08:01 AMJSS Wrote: p sure they got warnings from the mentors and smjhl intern soooooooooooo

Soooooo.... We set them up to fail?

so they know what they were getting into

ztevans · 08-02-2019, 08:05 AM

08-02-2019, 07:55 AMTomasnz Wrote: They are a trap for new players and not useful in our SIM.

If someone wants to be enforcer like they can do it through existing builds anyway. No need to have that archetype be an option.

Evidence: two active players not being drafted because they were that build.

We have done those players a disservice by including it as an option.

Role playing one would still be super easy from the two way defender or defensive defenseman builds or some of the centre builds too.

I think this post has mostly valid points and I am going to link it directly into HO chat as soon as I’m done replying to get a conversation going on this.

Grapehead · 08-02-2019, 08:06 AM

I don't see any reason to have the archetype if it is a turn off to GMs. Regardless of whether or not these rookies are getting warnings, why do we have an archetype that people need to be warned about?

ztevans · 08-02-2019, 08:06 AM

08-02-2019, 08:03 AMTomasnz Wrote:
08-02-2019, 08:01 AMJSS Wrote: p sure they got warnings from the mentors and smjhl intern soooooooooooo

Soooooo.... We set them up to fail?

...with that said, @GCool once made a pretty successful enforcer so it’s hardly setting these people up for failure. It’s just a different path.

Grapehead · 08-02-2019, 08:07 AM

08-02-2019, 08:04 AMJSS Wrote:
08-02-2019, 08:03 AMTomasnz Wrote: Soooooo.... We set them up to fail?

so they know what they were getting into

I get where you're coming from, but when dealing with our first gen players we really shouldn't be hammering "personal responsibility"

*Tomen* · 08-02-2019, 08:08 AM

I personally don't like the Enforcer build but it's in my opinion the only way someone could have a shot at breaking the current hit records.
I'd be in favor of removing them if in each player type you could have the option of just switching discipline and fighting so you can possibly break the hit records.

I do agree that the Enforcer build is currently 98% of the time a trap for new players but it also has it's use as @GCool showed us ( Danny Foster is a HoFer don't @ me) just like I think the Power Forward build is a bit of a trap but just a lesser one and one that is actually playable but definitely not optimal.

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JSS · 08-02-2019, 08:10 AM

08-02-2019, 08:07 AMGrapehead Wrote:
08-02-2019, 08:04 AMJSS Wrote: so they know what they were getting into

I get where you're coming from, but when dealing with our first gen players we really shouldn't be hammering "personal responsibility"

i'm not trying to blame them & if it's coming off like that, my bad

i just don't think we should change it, because you'll have the few that want to become enforcers so removing it is kinda stupid for those that actually want to be one

Dangles13 · 08-02-2019, 08:10 AM

I would say that removing the archetype is not the answer as there are plenty of players who have bad builds or wasted TPE in fighting, penalty shot and endurance from the get-go. I believe the solution is holding off on creating players until you have had a chance to talk to Rookie Mentors and GMs so you can make a more informed decision with your player.

Grapehead · 08-02-2019, 08:14 AM

08-02-2019, 08:10 AMDangles13 Wrote: I would say that removing the archetype is not the answer as there are plenty of players who have bad builds or wasted TPE in fighting, penalty shot and endurance from the get-go. I believe the solution is holding off on creating players until you have had a chance to talk to Rookie Mentors and GMs so you can make a more informed decision with your player.

Just the whole Fighting/Discipline thing is stupid. You can still build an enforcer type player, without disadvantaging yourself like that. Of course, putting all your TPE into Fighting doesn't help your draft stock, but straight up that archetype is seen as a negative regardless, and that doesn't seem like a good thing.

Samsung virtual assistant · 08-02-2019, 08:17 AM

TBF any player can be a sniper or playmaker too despite what build they take too

Avakael · 08-02-2019, 08:19 AM

I'd keep the Enforcer build, but for people who are on their second player only. That way they know what they're getting into, and will have a fair shot at competing with it.

Tomasnz · 08-02-2019, 08:21 AM

08-02-2019, 08:04 AMJSS Wrote:
08-02-2019, 08:03 AMTomasnz Wrote: Soooooo.... We set them up to fail?

so they know what they were getting into

No... They didn't. That's kinda my point.

Being told to change something after you've already made something that you wanted to try, then being warned it will be hard, is not the same as then facing the consequence of being excluded.

If we are trying to make this a welcoming place we should remove such obvious traps in character creation. We have likely lost two potential players because of this.

Edit:
@JSS sorry not trying to have a go at you. I saw your intermediate comment, I know your not stiring.

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