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***aleks*** · 04-23-2025, 10:06 PM

i would like to ask that people not attribute the actions of trolls who have either not been on the site in years, or, not been on hamilton in years, to the current team

***HabsFanFromOntario*** · 04-23-2025, 10:06 PM

04-23-2025, 10:05 PMWaters Wrote: who's 2/3/4 its one guy

I'm not going to name names, but I'll disagree with that in this thread alone.

***Waters*** · 04-23-2025, 10:08 PM

04-23-2025, 10:06 PMHabsFanFromOntario Wrote: I'm not going to name names, but I'll disagree with that in this thread alone.

you're right its 2 posts from jobin and then all the rest are samee. two guys who are not only not on hamilton at the moment but also not active for any team.

lets use some game sense

***HabsFanFromOntario*** · 04-23-2025, 10:09 PM

04-23-2025, 10:08 PMWaters Wrote: you're right its 2 posts from jobin and then all the rest are samee. two guys who are not only not on hamilton at the moment but also not active for any team.

lets use some game sense

Their active player status doesn't relate to the fact everybody knows they're in the Hamilton discord and getting the information from there and coming to post because of it.

Like I said, I think there's some great people in Hamilton but if you abide by people doing these things to participate in your niche community on the site, your community gets judged as part of that.

***Waters*** · 04-23-2025, 10:11 PM

genuinely the next time i am held responsible (and I mean me being held responsible, I've gotten several DMs about this in the last week) for two goobers who don't even have active players I'm going to burst a brain vessel

***aleks*** · 04-23-2025, 10:11 PM

04-23-2025, 10:09 PMHabsFanFromOntario Wrote: Their active player status doesn't relate to the fact everybody knows they're in the Hamilton discord and getting the information from there and coming to post because of it.

Like I said, I think there's some great people in Hamilton but if you abide by people doing these things to participate in your niche community on the site, your community gets judged as part of that.

they are not a part of my new community that i made a year ago

***Waters*** · 04-23-2025, 10:12 PM

04-23-2025, 10:09 PMHabsFanFromOntario Wrote: Their active player status doesn't relate to the fact everybody knows they're in the Hamilton discord and getting the information from there and coming to post because of it.

Like I said, I think there's some great people in Hamilton but if you abide by people doing these things to participate in your niche community on the site, your community gets judged as part of that.

jobin is not in the hamilton discord and samee has posted there twice in the last month, so I guess "everybody" knows fuck all

***HabsFanFromOntario*** · 04-23-2025, 10:13 PM

04-23-2025, 10:11 PMaleks Wrote: they are not a part of my new community that i made a year ago

Ah well that is news, I'm assuming they're just in some kind of old hamilton discord then

***sköldpaddor*** · 04-23-2025, 10:14 PM

04-23-2025, 09:57 PMFerda Wrote: Hey, I feel like we might be missing each other here a bit. I get what you're saying about the shift in spaces and how things have gotten more 'official'—I totally see that. But the main thing I was trying to get across about Hamilton is that there's a lot of focus on their past mistakes, and it's almost like we’re not acknowledging the growth they've shown. I’m not saying people should just forget everything, but if we really want to support growth, it feels like we should stop fixating on past actions and allow for change. The community vibe feels a bit off to me because it seems like there’s a lot of judgment based on what people used to do, rather than who they are now.

You mentioned the no-hate-speech rule, and I absolutely agree that it's important to keep things respectful. But for me, it feels like there’s a difference between keeping hate speech in check and creating an atmosphere where everything feels so polished that it’s hard to have a real, honest conversation. It’s like we’ve moved away from being able to laugh things off or disagree in a way that feels human. In the past, there was room for awkwardness, for disagreement, for messiness—even if it wasn't always perfect, we could joke around and move on. Now, it feels like if anything gets said that doesn’t fit into this super ‘positive’ or ‘safe’ box, it gets shut down or critiqued instantly. It’s tough to even laugh things off anymore without worrying that it’ll be taken the wrong way or criticized.

And about Discord—yeah, I totally get that it’s more of a space for unfiltered conversation. But even there, it feels like some of the same toxicity gets hidden behind closed doors, and it’s almost like we’re pretending it doesn’t affect the broader community. I’m not trying to argue with you, but I think my point got a bit lost in the mix—it’s less about just the ‘messiness’ of disagreements and more about how we treat people who are trying to change, and how we’ve lost the ability to just laugh things off, or let things slide.

Those last couple of paragraphs, I absolutely agree with that. I think that a LOT of the time, people develop these grudges and ideas about people and teams and groups and they never once bother to verify those ideas or determine whether any of those things are true. Like, in the past couple of months, I've been told that people "hate" me and...I don't even remember the last time I talked to these people! I don't have any CLUE what I could have done to make them hate me, but somehow, I'm just on some list due to...I guess something that's being passed around behind closed doors, and because it's all secluded back there, no one bothers to confront the issues, no one bothers to talk things out, they just spread things around in the shadows.

I do hate to see us lose our ability to joke around and move on. And I definitely don't think it has to be positive all the time. This is something where I absolutely sanitize a lot of my own responses, because I think that leadership should try not to actively provoke people or fire back with the first aggressive thing that comes to mind in the moment.

It's definitely hard. Because like, as you said, when there are a few bad actors, and it appears as if no one is calling them out or making any effort to stop them from causing harm, it feels like well...it can't bother them that much, or they'd say something.

I think that one thing we tried to make clear this week as Head Office, at any rate, is that our locker rooms and affiliated spaces absolutely do impact our broader community. Locker rooms should be a place where people can join and be welcomed in without immediately having to be initiated into a circle of drama and petty beef that they have no connection to, and that is not directed at Hamilton or any one room in particular, that's just my own opinion of locker rooms as a whole. And that's a hard thing to navigate when a community is as well-established as this one. There's over a decade of history here, and there's bad blood that's just as old, and I think that we should all do our best to just let go of that and not pass it on to future "generations" of users as soon as they walk in the door.

*Ferda* · 04-23-2025, 10:18 PM

04-23-2025, 10:04 PMHabsFanFromOntario Wrote: A team is a collection of individuals, if 2/3/4 people from that team are constantly being like that it gives the impressions it's accepted and encouraged some becomes a reflection of them. I think the league has definitely always been clique-y to a degree, hell we had the crew back in the day for my old heads, and I encourage people to reach out to others not on their team and talk to them. There's lots of cool people in the league I've met in the past year or so by just going out of my way to interact with people I might not have had a chance to. That said, I don't think it's unfair to hold Hamilton accountable for the actions of people in their realm especially when this has gone on for a long time.

You're right that a team is made up of individuals, and when a few members act in ways that aren’t great, it can absolutely give the impression that it’s accepted or even encouraged. I’m not denying that Hamilton (or any team) should be held accountable for the actions of the people within it—especially if it’s a pattern. But what’s frustrating to me is how this becomes the defining feature of Hamilton. It feels like every time something happens, it’s just one more reason for people to pile on and reinforce that ‘Hamilton bad’ narrative, without acknowledging the nuance or the people who are trying to improve.

And honestly, this thread right here is a perfect example of what I was talking about in my original post. We can see how quickly the conversation gets hijacked by the ‘Hamilton hate’ narrative, and that’s exactly what I mean by this cycle of defensiveness and frustration. Instead of allowing for a more honest discussion, we end up with this cycle where anyone even loosely connected to Hamilton feels like they're automatically guilty by association. It’s incredibly frustrating for anyone looking in, especially when it feels like members of Hamilton are constantly being looked down upon and blamed for things they had nothing to do with. And when anyone tries to speak up, it often feels like a minefield—any attempt at offering a different perspective gets shut down or met with immediate backlash.

It’s exhausting to see this constant need to prove that not everyone in Hamilton is part of the toxicity, and to watch the entire team's reputation get dragged through the mud every time a few individuals mess up. The truth is, it feels like the damage is done, and no matter what is said, the narrative is set. There’s little room for fairness or even understanding anymore—it’s more about assigning blame and reinforcing a narrative that’s hard to break out of.

Duff101 · 04-23-2025, 10:20 PM

Thunderdome is BACK baby they just renamed it to suspensions/punishments

thank u HO

Credit to Geck, Ragnar and Juni for sigs

***HabsFanFromOntario*** · 04-23-2025, 10:29 PM

04-23-2025, 10:18 PMFerda Wrote: You're right that a team is made up of individuals, and when a few members act in ways that aren’t great, it can absolutely give the impression that it’s accepted or even encouraged. I’m not denying that Hamilton (or any team) should be held accountable for the actions of the people within it—especially if it’s a pattern. But what’s frustrating to me is how this becomes the defining feature of Hamilton. It feels like every time something happens, it’s just one more reason for people to pile on and reinforce that ‘Hamilton bad’ narrative, without acknowledging the nuance or the people who are trying to improve.

And honestly, this thread right here is a perfect example of what I was talking about in my original post. We can see how quickly the conversation gets hijacked by the ‘Hamilton hate’ narrative, and that’s exactly what I mean by this cycle of defensiveness and frustration. Instead of allowing for a more honest discussion, we end up with this cycle where anyone even loosely connected to Hamilton feels like they're automatically guilty by association. It’s incredibly frustrating for anyone looking in, especially when it feels like members of Hamilton are constantly being looked down upon and blamed for things they had nothing to do with. And when anyone tries to speak up, it often feels like a minefield—any attempt at offering a different perspective gets shut down or met with immediate backlash.

It’s exhausting to see this constant need to prove that not everyone in Hamilton is part of the toxicity, and to watch the entire team's reputation get dragged through the mud every time a few individuals mess up. The truth is, it feels like the damage is done, and no matter what is said, the narrative is set. There’s little room for fairness or even understanding anymore—it’s more about assigning blame and reinforcing a narrative that’s hard to break out of.

It's not just Hamilton, it becomes a pattern for all teams that have to base it on the outside what they see since they're not inside, right?

I don't disagree but I think this ties into why everybody getting out of their bubbles is so important and talking to people. Personally until I watched @aleks and @Waters podcast about a month ago I had no idea how invested they were in the league's image and branding and loved their points of view and thoughts. But this only happens by people putting themselves out there to prove public perception wrong or others reaching out to them. Perceptions won't change unless a reason is given to do so, that's just life really.

*Ferda* · 04-23-2025, 10:32 PM

04-23-2025, 10:14 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: Those last couple of paragraphs, I absolutely agree with that. I think that a LOT of the time, people develop these grudges and ideas about people and teams and groups and they never once bother to verify those ideas or determine whether any of those things are true. Like, in the past couple of months, I've been told that people "hate" me and...I don't even remember the last time I talked to these people! I don't have any CLUE what I could have done to make them hate me, but somehow, I'm just on some list due to...I guess something that's being passed around behind closed doors, and because it's all secluded back there, no one bothers to confront the issues, no one bothers to talk things out, they just spread things around in the shadows.

I do hate to see us lose our ability to joke around and move on. And I definitely don't think it has to be positive all the time. This is something where I absolutely sanitize a lot of my own responses, because I think that leadership should try not to actively provoke people or fire back with the first aggressive thing that comes to mind in the moment.

It's definitely hard. Because like, as you said, when there are a few bad actors, and it appears as if no one is calling them out or making any effort to stop them from causing harm, it feels like well...it can't bother them that much, or they'd say something.

I think that one thing we tried to make clear this week as Head Office, at any rate, is that our locker rooms and affiliated spaces absolutely do impact our broader community. Locker rooms should be a place where people can join and be welcomed in without immediately having to be initiated into a circle of drama and petty beef that they have no connection to, and that is not directed at Hamilton or any one room in particular, that's just my own opinion of locker rooms as a whole. And that's a hard thing to navigate when a community is as well-established as this one. There's over a decade of history here, and there's bad blood that's just as old, and I think that we should all do our best to just let go of that and not pass it on to future "generations" of users as soon as they walk in the door.

You’re absolutely right about how quickly grudges and rumors spread without anyone actually checking if they’re true. It’s really frustrating to watch how people get labeled for things that may not even be relevant anymore. The worst part is how people can end up on some ‘list’ without ever understanding what they supposedly did wrong. And no one ever talks about it directly, so it just sits there, building up tension and division without any resolution.

The shift in how people communicate now, with everyone carefully choosing their words, is part of the problem. While I understand the need for respect, it feels like the space has become too sanitized. This is a fake hockey forum, after all—it’s supposed to be a place where people can show a bit of personality, have some fun, and not feel like they’re constantly walking on thin ice. Right now, it feels like we’ve lost the kind of energy that made the forum unique. Instead of being able to have real conversations with all the messiness and flaws that come with them, everything feels overly polished and controlled. We need more room for personality to come through, even if it means disagreement or letting some rough edges show. That’s what made the site feel alive in the first place—without that, it feels more like a performance than a genuine community.

When you talked about locker rooms, I completely agree. New users shouldn’t be walking into a space where they’re automatically dragged into old drama that they have no part in. The history here is undeniable, but it’s not something that newcomers should have to inherit. It’s frustrating to see them get caught up in conflicts they don’t understand or have any part in. And it only makes it harder to create the kind of environment where people can connect and move forward. This kind of ongoing drama just keeps repeating itself without anyone addressing the root cause.

Looking ahead, I agree that accountability is important, but the way it’s been handled feels like it’s not giving entire communities a fair chance to show they’ve changed. The problem isn’t in holding people responsible, but in how whole teams or groups can end up stuck with a reputation that no amount of growth or change can shake. This kind of labeling just perpetuates the same cycle, and it’s draining to watch. When the focus stays on old issues, it prevents any real progress or healing from happening. We need to focus on addressing these deeper issues so that communities aren’t continuously defined by the mistakes of the past.

jackkmart · 04-23-2025, 10:38 PM

I personally don't think Samee trolled that hard

[Image: FzU8bgnWIAUSgdN.jpg:large]

*Ferda* · 04-23-2025, 10:39 PM

04-23-2025, 10:29 PMHabsFanFromOntario Wrote: It's not just Hamilton, it becomes a pattern for all teams that have to base it on the outside what they see since they're not inside, right?

I don't disagree but I think this ties into why everybody getting out of their bubbles is so important and talking to people. Personally until I watched @aleks and @Waters podcast about a month ago I had no idea how invested they were in the league's image and branding and loved their points of view and thoughts. But this only happens by people putting themselves out there to prove public perception wrong or others reaching out to them. Perceptions won't change unless a reason is given to do so, that's just life really.

I completely agree with what you’re saying here. It’s a pattern that affects a lot of teams, not just Hamilton, but in different ways. Whether it’s a team, a locker room, or even just certain group dynamics, people tend to group together and assign collective blame based on the actions of a few individuals. You see this in every corner of the league: one bad incident in a locker room or a heated moment from a few people can quickly get generalized to the entire team, and that perception can stick. It doesn’t matter if everyone else is trying to do the right thing—it gets lumped together and treated as if it’s representative of everyone involved.

This is why it’s so crucial for members of these communities to step outside their own bubbles and take control of their image. As you mentioned with @aleks and @Waters, sometimes you don’t realize how invested someone is or what they care about until you make the effort to engage with them. But, here’s the thing: it shouldn’t always fall on the individuals trying to make a change. The broader community needs to stop viewing these groups or teams as monoliths. If we only ever look at Hamilton—or any team—through the lens of past actions or a few people’s behavior, we’re missing out on seeing the individuals for who they truly are.

The responsibility for changing perceptions should also lie within the community, not just with a few standout members. When we continue to lump people together based on past mistakes or the actions of a few, it prevents us from seeing each person’s growth and potential. We need to break away from the idea that everyone in Hamilton (or any other team) is part of some unified “problem.” It’s about recognizing that everyone deserves to be seen for who they are individually and not as a reflection of a collective past.

In the end, this constant “Hamilton bad” narrative doesn’t do justice to the people trying to improve, and it doesn’t give them the chance to prove they’re more than just the reputation that’s been handed to them. We need to move past this cycle of judgment and start seeing individuals for their own actions. Only then can we really create space for meaningful change and understanding.

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