02-19-2025, 12:28 AM(This post was last modified: 02-19-2025, 02:09 AM by fancey13. Edited 1 time in total.)
With SHL expansion officially confirmed, there are a few topics of discussion that quickly come to mind as potential areas of concern. I’d like to start this entire media post to directly say that in this post there is no intent to harm or slander any site members or HO, or disregard the work that goes into keeping this league moving like a well-oiled machine. I for one, greatly appreciate everything you all do, and nothing goes unnoticed. With that said, some of the topics that I am going to be writing on could be taken as suggestions for further improvements, or things that I personally think would benefit the average user’s experience since our league is growing at such a fast rate (thanks recruitment team, I see you guys working hard too)
League Growth
Firstly, I’d like to display league growth over the past few seasons. This will tie in future topics in this article and nicely show how much we’ve grown over time. This graph shows users that were drafted in each SHL draft class over the past several seasons.
As we can see from this graph, seasons 65-73 had a class of 60 drafted players or more only twice and in the 9 seasons since then, there has only been one season with less than 60. This may not seem like much, but we can see that recruitment is in an upward trend, and with each class only a few months apart, that growth can feel smaller than it actually is. It should also be noted that at the time of writing this media, the S82 SHL draft has not happened, which allows for some of the class to not be drafted, potentially lowering the class size.
With this growth, we have since added new teams over this span, and I know we’re all super excited to see a few more coming just around the corner.
Class Size Vs Drafted Players
Following the growth of drafted users, I’d also like to display how many users were actually in that specific class. This graph is the same as the previous graph, with another stem shown to display the entirety of the class. From this we can get a closer look at those who either lost interest in the league, never looked at it again after they created, just never made it past one singular season in the SHL.
This data was super hard to find for classes pre-S70, so to avoid inaccuracies, I left it out. Something to note here is that S82 is currently tied for the largest class of all time still with new players creating and being added to the class. We still see the same league growth here, but almost in a way that we don’t want to. Naturally a bigger class means more inactives, that’s the nature of the beast, however S75 had nearly exactly 40% of the class that didn’t get drafted to the SHL. Surely that’s a little more than we hope with expansion looming in the distance. This brings us to one of the more controversial topics I’m going to be elaborating on, jobs.
Jobs and Who Holds Them
I should start with some back story here. Throw it back to S76, I create as a new gen rookie, first time being on site. I had no idea when the draft was, I just created a player and off I went. Unfortunately, I was a little late to the party, right in the no man’s land of creating players, about a week before the trade deadline. That was something that was outside of anyone’s control, but that can be pretty daunting for someone completely new to the site. Not much going on, Nevada was pretty bad so nothing exciting team wise, just kind of lost in it all to be honest. With that being said, I was not an active user. I was barely earning, missed out on all my J tasks, barely spoke in the LR. It’s an uninteresting time for most users at that stage, especially given the circumstances. Fast forward to next season, Isa posts a job opportunity for J Budget Assistant. As someone who’s seeking a degree in business, I’m immediately intrigued. So I go ahead and apply for it and hey, I get the job. This instantaneously changes my SHL outlook. All of a sudden I’m invested in the inner workings of the league, what players are drafted where, what teams are signing a bunch of IAs and likely bad, the list goes on and on, but the moral of the story stays the same. That budget job got me to stick around longer than I ever thought I would, it got me to meet some fantastic people in discord LRs, hell, it got me to make a genuine friend or two. This is where I’m going to tie things together, there’s more to SHL expansion than creating a new team and moving on. We should be creating environments like that, that get users invested in the site and that get people to form a community, rather than just being strung along on the brink of being inactive only to be revived by a discord ping once a week. How do we do that? In my opinion and experience, JOBS.
I already know what you’re all saying, “Fancey, there’s only so many jobs”, “Fancey, there’s already too many ways to earn money”, “Fancey, we can’t force users to get jobs”. Here’s why I disagree to pretty much all of that.
I looked into EVERY job that is available and owned on site. Here’s a breakdown:
Site/Discord management – 32 held jobs
SHL - 120 held jobs
SMJHL – 85 held jobs
IIHF – 46 held jobs
WJC – 29 held jobs
(I know, this is a lot of jobs right?)
Cards – 21 held jobs
File workers – 10 jobs
Media/Graphics – 36 held jobs
Budget – 18 held jobs
And finally, Fantasy – 29 held jobs
426 jobs available on site and all filled. But, wait. 426 jobs is a hell of a lot out there. Why would this be an issue for expansion when there’s just over double the amount of users in the community, including inactives? Simply put, because some users have multiple jobs. After sifting through spreadsheets for hours here tonight, I’ve dug up that out of the 426 jobs on site, that only 232 users hold jobs, meaning that we almost average 2 jobs for everyone who has one. This is such an alarming number to me, since there are several users who only hold one singular job, those that hold multiple are so abundant that it brings the average up to almost cut the amount of users in half. I truly believe that this is locking up new users from getting their foot in the door, and with the amount of new users coming into the league I fear that it won’t be long before they eventually get bored from being held back from joining something more engaging than PT’s and writing media.
I don’t want to bring up any specific points or people, but it bothers me seeing comments regarding inflation of SHL money. When the only way to actively deeply engage in the community is to earn money for doing things, why should we be holding this opportunity from users? Sometimes that can be a new user’s cry to get involved in the league. This is just speaking from my own experience as I had stated previously, but, I think that the more money that is floating around in this league the more we should be cheering in the streets that we have thatmany active users engaging in this community. Not to mention, that money can only be spent at a set rate, it’s not like users with big bankrolls get some kind of TPE advantage. This only leads to higher user retention and more community to engage with.
With more jobs openly available for new users to get engaged in the league, there is some concern that users may not apply for available jobs. Unfortunately, that information isn’t public so I have never seen who has applied for what jobs. I do have a possible solution for this as well which leads into my next topic.
More Job Availability and How We Get It
So, at this point you may agree with me, or you may not. Either of which is fine with me and of course I would love to hear anyone’s opinion on this whether it’s the same as mine or completely against it. Regardless, here are my personal suggestions to expanding the community in ways outside of just more users.
First, we can expand some jobs. Namely jobs like awards and all-star committees. Currently there are around 10 users in these committees, I see no harm in expanding that to 15 members as I believe this is an excellent way to get more users invested in the league early on.
A new job that I personally see as a much needed asset are workers dedicated to some sort of communication between leagues. Whether it’s for early call-ups, expiring contracts that makes users no longer send-downs, or even a team to communicate between all-star or awards teams between the two leagues. This opens a whole new sector where we currently have no communication and also solves the issues and confusion that we are faced with every offseason.
Something new that HO has been doing is monitoring chirper for low effort chirps. This could be directed to a team. Not only would it create jobs, but it would release some of the pressure of monitoring the busiest thread on the forums to an already overworked HO as well. Creating a new team similar to graders with a head would create a bunch of opportunities in and of itself, also giving users some relevant experience to eventually move into a bigger role somewhere else on site.
Some Final Thoughts
This is probably a little intense for a first media post and probably the first time many of you have seen me as user on site. I want to get a sense as to if I’m the only user that feels this way or if many others have been in a similar boat or mindset. I’m going to link this completely optional survey for whoever is taking the time to read all of my rambling, since I appreciate you and want you to be heard as well. There will be an option for you to put your username on it that will be completely optional if you want to stay anonymous, or if you fill it out and decide that you wouldn’t mind sharing a conversation about this I’m always available for that too. My discord DMs are always open for anyone who wants to talk, against me or with me. I love you all
Incredible work and love the data and graphs, looking forward to seeing more from you! :D
“The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again. ... There are neither beginnings nor endings to the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning.”
First off, extremely well written and great points made.
Second, I do disagree with your stances throughout. While yes, a lot of users do hold multiple jobs, I think that overlooks the fact that we often see very few (if any) applicants for some jobs, and it's only when already dedicated users step up do we see those vacancies filled.
Another issue with adding more jobs to the league is that while it may relieve direct pressure off of HO, it does create another area of supervision for HO. Sometimes this is a good trade, but it can also be the case that it was easier for HO to do themselves rather than having to oversee and correct a separate group.
That all being said, I do agree with the idea of trying to inject more money into the league. TPE can't be bought beyond max earning, and making it so that having that the average user can make a decent earning player without having to dedicate hours to a league job is a good step. But it's a delicate balance, and we need to make sure that any new jobs fill real needs, and aren't just digging and filling holes.
02-19-2025, 01:13 AMbrickwall35 Wrote: First off, extremely well written and great points made.
Second, I do disagree with your stances throughout. While yes, a lot of users do hold multiple jobs, I think that overlooks the fact that we often see very few (if any) applicants for some jobs, and it's only when already dedicated users step up do we see those vacancies filled.
Another issue with adding more jobs to the league is that while it may relieve direct pressure off of HO, it does create another area of supervision for HO. Sometimes this is a good trade, but it can also be the case that it was easier for HO to do themselves rather than having to oversee and correct a separate group.
That all being said, I do agree with the idea of trying to inject more money into the league. TPE can't be bought beyond max earning, and making it so that having that the average user can make a decent earning player without having to dedicate hours to a league job is a good step. But it's a delicate balance, and we need to make sure that any new jobs fill real needs, and aren't just digging and filling holes.
Your second point was something that is unfortunately information that I have absolutely no idea on. I like to think that there's interest out there but without being able to say for certain I tried to steer clear of that as best as I could.
Also, a very good point about HO. My reasoning behind it was that I had assumed there would be heads that could oversee it similar to how HO would, further relieving that pressure but the more I think about it, the more I think that something is still bound to go wrong there at some point.
Hey Fancey, good media! Its always nice to have a perspective outside of our own so eloquently displayed as it truly fuels our work or forces us to perhaps reconsider certain elements of our work, so thank you for that!
First off, on class size, there's a pretty considerable increase in user retention since the portal has been live, which has brought an entirely new demographic to our user base : portal earners. While they might not engage in the site in the same way you'd typically see people do it, they're still a part of our community, and I find it important to first of all tip our hats at the dev team who've done a fine job at enabling such retention, but mostly, to understand that we need to make a place for these users.
This brings me to the money element. While yes, I think there needs to be a healthy balance between opportunity and difficulty, I think we're not too far off. While i've been vocal with some of the concerned parties about ways in which we can improve certain elements of the site, I also think we need to be wary of making it too easy so to speak. Not everyone can be a 2K earner, let alone a 1600+ TPE earner. With the SHL cap being what it is, we need to find ways to value different strata of TPE earners, which also means accepting that some users will struggle with money, be it for time, interest, ability, who knows. What we need to do above all else IMO is find a way to make some space for them. With the upcoming expansion, i'd like to believe we're doing that in part.
Nevertheless, thank you for speaking up! Although we may disagree on the money element, I understand the concern about jobs, and its something i've also thought of on many occasions. I think the ideal falls between what you'd expect for jobs, and the reality brick brought up, to where we have hiring struggles and veterans will usually step up to gap that.
That being said, more discussion on these matters is primordial if we want to keep progressing as a league! I have filled out your survey, but also be on the lookout for HO's survey as well, as it will hopefully be an all-encompassing affair! The more valuable feedback we have, the better!
Making it where more “entry” level SHL jobs are used for more of the 1st gen’s / no job holders is important. Helps them get into the league more and contribute
02-19-2025, 09:59 AMluke Wrote: Making it where more “entry” level SHL jobs are used for more of the 1st gen’s / no job holders is important. Helps them get into the league more and contribute
I agree with a lot of your sentiments in this post. I think that money should be relatively easy to earn. However, this media, along with the upcoming expansion, had me kind of view it through a different lens. I think that as long as we expand the league enough, the money issue isnt as much of a problem. If we have more spots for players in the league and the overall talent of the league gets diluted through expansion, this gives more opportunity and space for mid/low earners to be valuable. Imagine a league where even if you cap out at say 900 tpe, you can still be a valuable depth player on a team. This not only improves the careers of those types of players, but also makes the star players feel more like stars, something that this league struggles with sometimes in my opinion.
Great media. I agree with some of your points but I’m also part of the problem you’re talking about. Within my first two sessions I had multiple jobs without any problem, really. I like the idea of expanding committees like Awards/All Star. I know media has expanded a bit recently. Opening more jobs will be nice.
That said, it’s not that hard to earn through media. Do two hour long podcasts over 2x weeks and you’re set for training all season. More media also means more media jobs. I’m still pretty new so my perspective is obviously limited, but it really seems like users ultimately control their own ability to max earn.
02-19-2025, 08:24 AMFrenchie Wrote: Hey Fancey, good media! Its always nice to have a perspective outside of our own so eloquently displayed as it truly fuels our work or forces us to perhaps reconsider certain elements of our work, so thank you for that!
First off, on class size, there's a pretty considerable increase in user retention since the portal has been live, which has brought an entirely new demographic to our user base : portal earners. While they might not engage in the site in the same way you'd typically see people do it, they're still a part of our community, and I find it important to first of all tip our hats at the dev team who've done a fine job at enabling such retention, but mostly, to understand that we need to make a place for these users.
This brings me to the money element. While yes, I think there needs to be a healthy balance between opportunity and difficulty, I think we're not too far off. While i've been vocal with some of the concerned parties about ways in which we can improve certain elements of the site, I also think we need to be wary of making it too easy so to speak. Not everyone can be a 2K earner, let alone a 1600+ TPE earner. With the SHL cap being what it is, we need to find ways to value different strata of TPE earners, which also means accepting that some users will struggle with money, be it for time, interest, ability, who knows. What we need to do above all else IMO is find a way to make some space for them. With the upcoming expansion, i'd like to believe we're doing that in part.
Nevertheless, thank you for speaking up! Although we may disagree on the money element, I understand the concern about jobs, and its something i've also thought of on many occasions. I think the ideal falls between what you'd expect for jobs, and the reality brick brought up, to where we have hiring struggles and veterans will usually step up to gap that.
That being said, more discussion on these matters is primordial if we want to keep progressing as a league! I have filled out your survey, but also be on the lookout for HO's survey as well, as it will hopefully be an all-encompassing affair! The more valuable feedback we have, the better!
Have a good day!
My personal thoughts on this would be that by expanding the league with a few more teams we are also diluting the TPE per team. All of a sudden a 1200 TPE build will be much more sought after, but adds that much more team value to those 2K TPE max earners. I think by adding in expansion teams without any supporting ways to earn could lead to less user retention, as that is the biggest concern I was trying to highlight.
I think sometimes we can all overlook how difficult it is to engage in this community as someone without a job, since anyone in a position to comment or make a media post like this almost certainly has one. At the end of the day, I think everybody wants the same thing in a fantastic community with good people to share spaces with, but ways of enhancing that are a little more separated.
And again, the information that I was restricted from was seeing who actually applies for each job. That kind of thing is hard for me to speak on since I have absolutely no idea what goes on behind closed doors there. It would be just as easy for someone to say they received 100 applications or 0 and I wouldn't be able to say if that's right or wrong. But I will say, that if jobs are receiving very little applications, maybe we could also be doing a better job as a whole to promote what jobs are actually available to newer users to the league who may not know where to go to find the postings.
But thank you so much for taking the time to read through my media and give me some feedback! I truly do appreciate it
02-19-2025, 10:56 AMtrella Wrote: Hey, this media was great.
I agree with a lot of your sentiments in this post. I think that money should be relatively easy to earn. However, this media, along with the upcoming expansion, had me kind of view it through a different lens. I think that as long as we expand the league enough, the money issue isnt as much of a problem. If we have more spots for players in the league and the overall talent of the league gets diluted through expansion, this gives more opportunity and space for mid/low earners to be valuable. Imagine a league where even if you cap out at say 900 tpe, you can still be a valuable depth player on a team. This not only improves the careers of those types of players, but also makes the star players feel more like stars, something that this league struggles with sometimes in my opinion.
I did take team TPE dilution into account, though I didn't directly discuss it. It is a good point that a league can still be fun without every player being 1500+ TPE. However, I think that there's more to the league than just earning a set amount and simulating games. I personally love the community aspect of it, interacting with a bunch of people from all over the world. This is the experience that gets taken away from users who haven't been able to get their foot in the door in some aspect of employment on site. I understand that isn't for everybody, but when there are very few opportunities available for new users to get involved we are just essentially turning an active to an inactive. Doesn't do great for the community side of things, and it ends up showing up in dead LRs making everybody's experience less enjoyable
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