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caltroit_red_flames · 07-30-2018, 01:11 PM

07-30-2018, 01:00 PMztevans Wrote:
07-30-2018, 12:50 PMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote:
07-30-2018, 10:38 AMztevans Wrote: But seriously, how is this a paid task? You are getting the media pay, and the privilege (And free advertising, which, let's be real, is just free recruitment and yet another workaround of the "Only use your recruitment page" decree) of "hosting" the games. And some of the items highlighted in these bids, like hosting PbPs, should fall on HO if anything. Can anyone explain this?

I believe you just get the normal pay you'd get from media and the payment you're thinking of is just a little bonus tacked on if you did exceptional work Izzy did last season. Dude set a real high bar though so I doubt anyone gets a bonus unless they put in a crazy amount of work. My guess is whoever gets it the next few seasons will just get normal media pay.

That's the exact opposite of what Arty is saying.

07-30-2018, 12:51 PMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote:
07-30-2018, 10:29 AMztevans Wrote:
07-30-2018, 09:16 AMartermis Wrote:
07-29-2018, 12:59 PMWhite Cornerback Wrote: ugh whats the point of hosting again

-> Official IIHF Media and Hype Position
-> Free advertisement for your nation
-> Variable Salary depending on work done and those involved

Hey, another job that pays more than HO. Because the 20m in media pay from hosting the tournament isn't enough.

You don't get 20m for hosting the tournament lmao

Izzy absolutely made that much in media, plus the 5m bonus.

I thought you meant simply for hosting.

Yes but that won't be the norm. He deserved what he got if you look at everything he did. I don't expect any teams to get more than 10 mil in the future. Also keep in mind that's supposed to be distributed between all contributors meaning you shpuld probably be splitting tha between like 7 or 8 people who worked on the hosting stuff together.

ztevans · 07-30-2018, 01:29 PM

I thought you meant simply for hosting.

Yes but that won't be the norm. He deserved what he got if you look at everything he did. I don't expect any teams to get more than 10 mil in the future. Also keep in mind that's supposed to be distributed between all contributors meaning you shpuld probably be splitting tha between like 7 or 8 people who worked on the hosting stuff together.
[/quote]

I think you are missing my point.

The 20m in media pay, he wrote all of those words. He certainly earned those in that regard. But he only wrote them out of a privilege given to him by HO. Still, he put in the work.

Why, on top of that, should HO give him any more money? He only got 5m extra, but why even that?

Edit: Not even gonna try to go back and fix that quote box

***artermis*** · 07-31-2018, 11:14 PM

07-30-2018, 10:38 AMztevans Wrote: But seriously, how is this a paid task? You are getting the media pay, and the privilege (And free advertising, which, let's be real, is just free recruitment and yet another workaround of the "Only use your recruitment page" decree) of "hosting" the games. And some of the items highlighted in these bids, like hosting PbPs, should fall on HO if anything. Can anyone explain this?

That's a fair assessment.

We can definitely take another look at payment before the next hosts get paid.

The pay was originally meant to entice people to want to host, as I thought not many would like it and that media would be seen as more work than worthwhile, so I never thought of the two combining into quite the pool that Izzy amassed.

There's also the question of what if someone did quite a bit of work on articles or other plans behind the scenes but had no way to make a direct income, which sounds somewhat likely in the Czech bid, which involved quite a number of players from their own nation.

To me, it seemed that Izzy's overall effort into hosting and the season-long effort and responsibility warrants something, but obviously this stems from something much more personal with you.

Nevertheless, it will be looked at, I've never really been worried about money throughout my SHL tenure as a user, but the media aspect is a good point you raise.

DeletedAtUserRequest · 08-01-2018, 12:05 AM

wait lol... dont let evans come in and dictate the pay scale for the IIHF lol...

The pay for hosting is 3 million dollars... thats it. you get 3 million dollars if you do exactly what the criteria is for taking on the event.. and there is a list of things that go above and beyond the GM's job criteria to host so that amount is a legitimate number. i mean we pay 3 million dollars to host all the awards shows ..why not pay 3 million to a team taking on the whole tourny?.. but that team does have some incentives to earn more if they want to do more.... I as an example did more with a 12,300 word IIHF team review.. and while i understand where @ztevans is coming from... i didnt need hosting privileges to write that anymore then Zach doesnt need to be on the Dragons to write an indepth article on Calgary.

[Image: UlcwD8W.png]

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ztevans · 08-01-2018, 06:58 AM

07-31-2018, 11:14 PMartermis Wrote:
07-30-2018, 10:38 AMztevans Wrote: But seriously, how is this a paid task? You are getting the media pay, and the privilege (And free advertising, which, let's be real, is just free recruitment and yet another workaround of the "Only use your recruitment page" decree) of "hosting" the games. And some of the items highlighted in these bids, like hosting PbPs, should fall on HO if anything. Can anyone explain this?

That's a fair assessment.

We can definitely take another look at payment before the next hosts get paid.

The pay was originally meant to entice people to want to host, as I thought not many would like it and that media would be seen as more work than worthwhile, so I never thought of the two combining into quite the pool that Izzy amassed.

There's also the question of what if someone did quite a bit of work on articles or other plans behind the scenes but had no way to make a direct income, which sounds somewhat likely in the Czech bid, which involved quite a number of players from their own nation.

To me, it seemed that Izzy's overall effort into hosting and the season-long effort and responsibility warrants something, but obviously this stems from something much more personal with you.

Nevertheless, it will be looked at, I've never really been worried about money throughout my SHL tenure as a user, but the media aspect is a good point you raise.

I don't know why you would assume I have anything personal with Izzy in these posts. He earned every dollar he was paid in media ... That's why he was paid on the media scale, by the media graders.

As for "behind the scenes" stuff, I would again argue that should be HO's job. If you need a "host" for that, perhaps a restructuring of tasks among HO is a greater need, rather than having people effectively bid on a rotating spot on your operational committee for a 3m job.

If there are jobs that need to be done, I'm all for creating them and paying for them. I don't feel this IIHF host should be a part of that. They should be creating interest and buzz like Izzy did last season, which, again, was rewarded handsomely and deservedly by the media team.

dankoa · 08-01-2018, 07:01 AM

stop artermis, iihf already dead

ztevans · 08-01-2018, 07:40 AM

08-01-2018, 12:05 AMMike Izzy Wrote: wait lol... dont let evans come in and dictate the pay scale for the IIHF lol...

The pay for hosting is 3 million dollars... thats it. you get 3 million dollars if you do exactly what the criteria is for taking on the event.. and there is a list of things that go above and beyond the GM's job criteria to host so that amount is a legitimate number. i mean we pay 3 million dollars to host all the awards shows ..why not pay 3 million to a team taking on the whole tourny?.. but that team does have some incentives to earn more if they want to do more.... I as an example did more with a 12,300 word IIHF team review.. and while i understand where @ztevans is coming from... i didnt need hosting privileges to write that anymore then Zach doesnt need to be on the Dragons to write an indepth article on Calgary.

Agreed! If you want to write another preview of your own and make media cash off of it, great!

I guess, again, I'm asking literally what the point of the host is. If they're a hype man or hype group, great, but let the media team grade them.

If nations are literally bidding on a one-time cash payment to help HO do the job they should be doing anyways? Not only is that extremely problematic and open to favoritism based on whoever is running IIHF at the time, it's going to create wild inconsistencies in what gets done from season to season. That's not saying one nation would half-ass it, but they'll all have different priorities. One may think we don't need PbPs at all, another may think all eight medal round games deserve them. One might be more hands on in making sure rosters are legal, another will say that's not their job.

caltroit_red_flames · 08-01-2018, 08:54 AM

08-01-2018, 07:01 AMdankoa Wrote: stop artermis, iihf already dead

On the contrary the IIHF HO and federation heads are putting in a lot of work that is making it much more legitimate. I think you'll find it's only going to grow over the next several seasons.

dankoa · 08-01-2018, 09:00 AM

08-01-2018, 08:54 AMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote:
08-01-2018, 07:01 AMdankoa Wrote: stop artermis, iihf already dead

On the contrary the IIHF HO and federation heads are putting in a lot of work that is making it much more legitimate. I think you'll find it's only going to grow over the next several seasons.

I really wish I could block you and your stupid opinions

ztevans · 08-01-2018, 09:24 AM

08-01-2018, 08:54 AMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote:
08-01-2018, 07:01 AMdankoa Wrote: stop artermis, iihf already dead

On the contrary the IIHF HO and federation heads are putting in a lot of work that is making it much more legitimate. I think you'll find it's only going to grow over the next several seasons.

What was legitimate about Sweden's roster last season? What was legitimate about letting nations recruit on Reddit?

Hard-working fed heads, yes. I'll 100% buy into that. I think, from 1 to 12, this is one of the best groups I've seen in IIHF during my time here. I hope their efforts are rewarded with more interest in IIHF. But legitimacy is going in the wrong direction, I'm afraid.

caltroit_red_flames · 08-01-2018, 10:17 AM

08-01-2018, 09:24 AMztevans Wrote:
08-01-2018, 08:54 AMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote:
08-01-2018, 07:01 AMdankoa Wrote: stop artermis, iihf already dead

On the contrary the IIHF HO and federation heads are putting in a lot of work that is making it much more legitimate. I think you'll find it's only going to grow over the next several seasons.

What was legitimate about Sweden's roster last season? What was legitimate about letting nations recruit on Reddit?

Hard-working fed heads, yes. I'll 100% buy into that. I think, from 1 to 12, this is one of the best groups I've seen in IIHF during my time here. I hope their efforts are rewarded with more interest in IIHF. But legitimacy is going in the wrong direction, I'm afraid.

Was there an issue with Sweden's roster last season? I never heard about any issues with the roster.

The reddit recruitment was an experiment by the IIHF HO that I assume won't be repeated again. There was announcement among the heads that stated teams were able to make a post, but when not every team took advantage of that opportunities issues rose up. Things like that happen during growth and now new rules are being put in place to ensure that there are less grey areas and that it doesn't happen again. I see that as a move toward legitimacy.

It's not immediate, but give it 4 or 5 seasons and I think this group of heads is going to pay off huge in creating relaxed interest in the offseason for the site. Something that is lacking entirely in other sim leagues.

ztevans · 08-01-2018, 11:04 AM

08-01-2018, 10:17 AMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote:
08-01-2018, 09:24 AMztevans Wrote:
08-01-2018, 08:54 AMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote:
08-01-2018, 07:01 AMdankoa Wrote: stop artermis, iihf already dead

On the contrary the IIHF HO and federation heads are putting in a lot of work that is making it much more legitimate. I think you'll find it's only going to grow over the next several seasons.

What was legitimate about Sweden's roster last season? What was legitimate about letting nations recruit on Reddit?

Hard-working fed heads, yes. I'll 100% buy into that. I think, from 1 to 12, this is one of the best groups I've seen in IIHF during my time here. I hope their efforts are rewarded with more interest in IIHF. But legitimacy is going in the wrong direction, I'm afraid.

Was there an issue with Sweden's roster last season? I never heard about any issues with the roster.

The reddit recruitment was an experiment by the IIHF HO that I assume won't be repeated again. There was announcement among the heads that stated teams were able to make a post, but when not every team took advantage of that opportunities issues rose up. Things like that happen during growth and now new rules are being put in place to ensure that there are less grey areas and that it doesn't happen again. I see that as a move toward legitimacy.

It's not immediate, but give it 4 or 5 seasons and I think this group of heads is going to pay off huge in creating relaxed interest in the offseason for the site. Something that is lacking entirely in other sim leagues.

To point one, Sweden had three retired players on its roster. It wasn't even close to legal. Fortunately it also wasn't close to good, so Sweden didn't steal a medal round spot from anyone.

Honestly, point two plays into my argument. Why was the "contact" rule waived in the first place so rashly, only for people to immediately realize the consequences and now say the rule needs to be changed? It worked fine! Changing the rule now is resolving a self-created problem.

To the third point, I'm rooting for you, which I think is the largest takeaway here. We all want the IIHF to do well and gain popularity and will have differing opinions on how to go about that.

caltroit_red_flames · 08-01-2018, 11:38 AM

08-01-2018, 11:04 AMztevans Wrote:
08-01-2018, 10:17 AMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote:
08-01-2018, 09:24 AMztevans Wrote:
08-01-2018, 08:54 AMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote:
08-01-2018, 07:01 AMdankoa Wrote: stop artermis, iihf already dead

On the contrary the IIHF HO and federation heads are putting in a lot of work that is making it much more legitimate. I think you'll find it's only going to grow over the next several seasons.

What was legitimate about Sweden's roster last season? What was legitimate about letting nations recruit on Reddit?

Hard-working fed heads, yes. I'll 100% buy into that. I think, from 1 to 12, this is one of the best groups I've seen in IIHF during my time here. I hope their efforts are rewarded with more interest in IIHF. But legitimacy is going in the wrong direction, I'm afraid.

Was there an issue with Sweden's roster last season? I never heard about any issues with the roster.

The reddit recruitment was an experiment by the IIHF HO that I assume won't be repeated again. There was announcement among the heads that stated teams were able to make a post, but when not every team took advantage of that opportunities issues rose up. Things like that happen during growth and now new rules are being put in place to ensure that there are less grey areas and that it doesn't happen again. I see that as a move toward legitimacy.

It's not immediate, but give it 4 or 5 seasons and I think this group of heads is going to pay off huge in creating relaxed interest in the offseason for the site. Something that is lacking entirely in other sim leagues.

To point one, Sweden had three retired players on its roster. It wasn't even close to legal. Fortunately it also wasn't close to good, so Sweden didn't steal a medal round spot from anyone.

Honestly, point two plays into my argument. Why was the "contact" rule waived in the first place so rashly, only for people to immediately realize the consequences and now say the rule needs to be changed? It worked fine! Changing the rule now is resolving a self-created problem.

To the third point, I'm rooting for you, which I think is the largest takeaway here. We all want the IIHF to do well and gain popularity and will have differing opinions on how to go about that.

Wow that is an awful oversight by whoever is supposed to be in charge of that. I could understand one player slipping through the cracks, but 3 is pretty bad.

I agree with you on that as well, the fact that it happened was a mistake, the good thing coming from this is that it won't happen again though. My unpopular opinion is that I'm glad something new was tried because (as you pointed out in the weekend funtime) I'm usually a little more hasty in wanting to take risks that may fail like the expansion that was being talked about or the recruitment idea.

I hope that's what we're all rooting for brother! As long as we all have that same goal in mind then I think we'll get where we want to be sooner than later.

***artermis*** · 08-01-2018, 12:35 PM

08-01-2018, 06:58 AMztevans Wrote:
07-31-2018, 11:14 PMartermis Wrote:
07-30-2018, 10:38 AMztevans Wrote: But seriously, how is this a paid task? You are getting the media pay, and the privilege (And free advertising, which, let's be real, is just free recruitment and yet another workaround of the "Only use your recruitment page" decree) of "hosting" the games. And some of the items highlighted in these bids, like hosting PbPs, should fall on HO if anything. Can anyone explain this?

That's a fair assessment.

We can definitely take another look at payment before the next hosts get paid.

The pay was originally meant to entice people to want to host, as I thought not many would like it and that media would be seen as more work than worthwhile, so I never thought of the two combining into quite the pool that Izzy amassed.

There's also the question of what if someone did quite a bit of work on articles or other plans behind the scenes but had no way to make a direct income, which sounds somewhat likely in the Czech bid, which involved quite a number of players from their own nation.

To me, it seemed that Izzy's overall effort into hosting and the season-long effort and responsibility warrants something, but obviously this stems from something much more personal with you.

Nevertheless, it will be looked at, I've never really been worried about money throughout my SHL tenure as a user, but the media aspect is a good point you raise.

I don't know why you would assume I have anything personal with Izzy in these posts. He earned every dollar he was paid in media ... That's why he was paid on the media scale, by the media graders.

As for "behind the scenes" stuff, I would again argue that should be HO's job. If you need a "host" for that, perhaps a restructuring of tasks among HO is a greater need, rather than having people effectively bid on a rotating spot on your operational committee for a 3m job.

If there are jobs that need to be done, I'm all for creating them and paying for them. I don't feel this IIHF host should be a part of that. They should be creating interest and buzz like Izzy did last season, which, again, was rewarded handsomely and deservedly by the media team.

I never said anything about it being personal Izzy-wise, I mainly thought this was coming from instances where you felt you should've been paid and weren't properly rewarded.

You also mis-interpreted what I meant by "behind the scenes" stuff, in that I meant the overall planning and execution of hosting that isn't in the public eye.

***artermis*** · 08-01-2018, 12:47 PM

08-01-2018, 07:01 AMdankoa Wrote: stop artermis, iihf already dead

I find it astonishing to think that not too long ago you were once in my position and that you are now proclaiming that the IIHF, your former charge, is "dead".

08-01-2018, 07:40 AMztevans Wrote:
08-01-2018, 12:05 AMMike Izzy Wrote: wait lol... dont let evans come in and dictate the pay scale for the IIHF lol...

The pay for hosting is 3 million dollars... thats it. you get 3 million dollars if you do exactly what the criteria is for taking on the event.. and there is a list of things that go above and beyond the GM's job criteria to host so that amount is a legitimate number. i mean we pay 3 million dollars to host all the awards shows ..why not pay 3 million to a team taking on the whole tourny?.. but that team does have some incentives to earn more if they want to do more.... I as an example did more with a 12,300 word IIHF team review.. and while i understand where @ztevans is coming from... i didnt need hosting privileges to write that anymore then Zach doesnt need to be on the Dragons to write an indepth article on Calgary.

Agreed! If you want to write another preview of your own and make media cash off of it, great!

I guess, again, I'm asking literally what the point of the host is. If they're a hype man or hype group, great, but let the media team grade them.

If nations are literally bidding on a one-time cash payment to help HO do the job they should be doing anyways? Not only is that extremely problematic and open to favoritism based on whoever is running IIHF at the time, it's going to create wild inconsistencies in what gets done from season to season. That's not saying one nation would half-ass it, but they'll all have different priorities. One may think we don't need PbPs at all, another may think all eight medal round games deserve them. One might be more hands on in making sure rosters are legal, another will say that's not their job.

The duties of a host are clear and concise.

The only things they are required to contribute are:

An overview article of international team needs, so as to promote awareness.
Control over the official IIHF twitter, if they use it or not is their choice, but I too have control over the twitter so I can pick up the slack if there is any.
And finally, due to the vastly different, but all fair view on play-by-plays, the host may decided on how to proceed, within reason and approval of the HO.

I disagree that these duties are the HO's job, however I have said that if ever we do not have a host, I will gladly don the mantel to make sure something is done.

The idea of hosts came from just simple naming a nation for each tournament, but creativity got the better of us and the iteration of hosting that we have now came forth from it.

08-01-2018, 09:24 AMztevans Wrote:
08-01-2018, 08:54 AMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote:
08-01-2018, 07:01 AMdankoa Wrote: stop artermis, iihf already dead

On the contrary the IIHF HO and federation heads are putting in a lot of work that is making it much more legitimate. I think you'll find it's only going to grow over the next several seasons.

What was legitimate about Sweden's roster last season? What was legitimate about letting nations recruit on Reddit?

Hard-working fed heads, yes. I'll 100% buy into that. I think, from 1 to 12, this is one of the best groups I've seen in IIHF during my time here. I hope their efforts are rewarded with more interest in IIHF. But legitimacy is going in the wrong direction, I'm afraid.

You also remember that Sweden's previous Fed Head has since stepped down and apologized for the error, yes?

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