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DeletedAtUserRequest · 11-26-2020, 04:29 PM

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Knox Booth: 20-21-3,    2.64 GAA    0.934 Sv% 2  Shutouts

Kata Vilde:   34-6-4,    1.65    GAA    0.936 Sv% 9  Shutouts

@Awards Committee... i love you guys, you have done an awesome job over the seasons and i know how hard you work to get the winners right. But this is alittle perplexing, maybe you can clarify this.. not only did Vilde not win, but he didnt even get half the votes in this category?

i get that the goalie situation is more dependant on team defense but are we at the point in FHM where we can blindly ignore stats?..or make the case for a player over 1 attribute? back in the STHS era we all knew that team skill determined good play.. but we never ignored Chris York's 80 point season as an example..

LAP and Booth are awesome! .. love that franchise, great great goalie... but Kata works hard and he had a season stats wise that deserved to be honored.. feels like he was punished.. but maybe there's something i'm missing....can you guys clarify what made this a 30-16 vote for this category against the 34-6-4, 1.65, .936% 9 shutout goalie?

Love,

Izzy -

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***Faelax*** · 11-26-2020, 04:33 PM

Wins are a team stat so you can throw those out for an individual performance award. Booths advanced goalie stats were insane, and he did it with much less help from the team in front of him

***WannabeFinn*** · 11-26-2020, 04:38 PM

lmao

JT3 · 11-26-2020, 04:41 PM

Vilde had an excellent season and deserves to be honored for it, but all you need to do is compare LAP vs CGY's defense last season. LAP was icing FOUR defenseman sub 700TPE. Booth single handedly carried the team to the playoffs, whereas Vilde was excellent but he also had the best team in the West in front of him.

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DeletedAtUserRequest · 11-26-2020, 04:41 PM

11-26-2020, 04:33 PMFaelax Wrote: Wins are a team stat so you can throw those out for an individual performance award. Booths advanced goalie stats were insane, and he did it with much less help from the team in front of him

Hi Faelax,

Wins are a team stat and the goalie is apart of the team.. put a 710 tpe goalie on Calgary and he doesnt go 36-4..

but that said... can someone put the advanced goalie stats in here between the 2 as comparison?.. if the numbers are so brutally favored for Knox to ignore the meat and potato numbers above.. this would make more sense.

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***FuzzSHL*** · 11-26-2020, 04:43 PM

11-26-2020, 04:33 PMFaelax Wrote: Wins are a team stat so you can throw those out for an individual performance award. Booths advanced goalie stats were insane, and he did it with much less help from the team in front of him

This. As someone who has been looking at advanced goalie stats in the J for the past 6 seasons, you essentially have to ignore Wins and, to an extent, GAA. Wins is a team statistic, period.

When you look at each goalie’s GAA and save percentage, you will notice that they have similar save percentages but Booth has a higher GAA. Even without looking at advanced stats, you can infer that Booth faced much more shots than Vilde did.

When you look at the advanced stats, Booth simply stole more games than Vilde did. LAP would not have finished with nearly as good a record as they did if they had a different goalie. Calgary, however, would have finished in a similar position with a different goalie simply because of the team in front of whoever was in net.

This isn’t trying to discredit the season that Vilde had. Instead, it’s a testament to just how great Booth was given what he had to face.

Aleksi Kettu

***FuzzSHL*** · 11-26-2020, 04:45 PM

11-26-2020, 04:41 PMMike Izzy Wrote:
11-26-2020, 04:33 PMFaelax Wrote: Wins are a team stat so you can throw those out for an individual performance award. Booths advanced goalie stats were insane, and he did it with much less help from the team in front of him

Hi Faelax,

Wins are a team stat and the goalie is apart of the team.. put a 710 tpe goalie on Calgary and he doesnt go 36-4..

but that said... can someone put the advanced goalie stats in here between the 2 as comparison?.. if the numbers are so brutally favored for Knox to ignore the meat and potato numbers above.. maybe this would make a bit more sense.

Here’s one set to look at. I still need to find the spreadsheet with wins-above-replacement, but here’s a start

Aleksi Kettu

***Faelax*** · 11-26-2020, 04:45 PM

11-26-2020, 04:41 PMMike Izzy Wrote:
11-26-2020, 04:33 PMFaelax Wrote: Wins are a team stat so you can throw those out for an individual performance award. Booths advanced goalie stats were insane, and he did it with much less help from the team in front of him

Hi Faelax,

Wins are a team stat and the goalie is apart of the team.. put a 710 tpe goalie on Calgary and he doesnt go 36-4..

but that said... can someone put the advanced goalie stats in here between the 2 as comparison?.. if the numbers are so brutally favored for Knox to ignore the meat and potato numbers above.. maybe this would make a bit more sense.

I dont have the numbers handy and I will have to find them.

But you could absolutely put a 7-8 hundred tpe goalie on Calgary and have them do really well. We have seen it a couple times already in the FHM era with Doyle on Buffalo and Jobin on Hamilton. You can put a lower tpe goalie behind a stacked team and have them do really well.

***Blastmeaway*** · 11-26-2020, 04:47 PM

11-26-2020, 04:43 PMFuzzSHL Wrote:
11-26-2020, 04:33 PMFaelax Wrote: Wins are a team stat so you can throw those out for an individual performance award. Booths advanced goalie stats were insane, and he did it with much less help from the team in front of him

This. As someone who has been looking at advanced goalie stats in the J for the past 6 seasons, you essentially have to ignore Wins and, to an extent, GAA. Wins is a team statistic, period.

When you look at each goalie’s GAA and save percentage, you will notice that they have similar save percentages but Booth has a higher GAA. Even without looking at advanced stats, you can infer that Booth faced much more shots than Vilde did.

When you look at the advanced stats, Booth simply stole more games than Vilde did. LAP would not have finished with nearly as good a record as they did if they had a different goalie. Calgary, however, would have finished in a similar position with a different goalie simply because of the team in front of whoever was in net.

This isn’t trying to discredit the season that Vilde had. Instead, it’s a testament to just how great Booth was given what he had to face.

jesus i hate looking at that dudes broken ass nose for like 2 rounds in the post season, now its your profile pic fuzz? i've stated this numerous times, my only issue with the Carolina Hurricanes is Rod Brind'Amor's busted mug.

Shout out to ml002, schultzy, slashacm, tedward!
[Image: blastmeaway.gif]

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09-05-2018, 10:04 PMBeaver Wrote: Wow look what the PT affiliation has done to our pristine league.

12-19-2018, 12:31 AMBeaver Wrote: I personally blame the PT affiliation for handing out massive amounts of free TPE to all these players, inflating the TPE they're at when they get called up.

[Image: Capture21.PNG?width=400&height=90]

***Blastmeaway*** · 11-26-2020, 04:50 PM

11-26-2020, 04:41 PMMike Izzy Wrote:
11-26-2020, 04:33 PMFaelax Wrote: Wins are a team stat so you can throw those out for an individual performance award. Booths advanced goalie stats were insane, and he did it with much less help from the team in front of him

Wins are a team stat and the goalie is apart of the team.. put a 710 tpe goalie on Calgary and he doesnt go 36-4..

@SlashACM might have some words about this for you.

Shout out to ml002, schultzy, slashacm, tedward!
[Image: blastmeaway.gif]

I

09-05-2018, 10:04 PMBeaver Wrote: Wow look what the PT affiliation has done to our pristine league.

12-19-2018, 12:31 AMBeaver Wrote: I personally blame the PT affiliation for handing out massive amounts of free TPE to all these players, inflating the TPE they're at when they get called up.

***goldenglutes*** · 11-26-2020, 04:50 PM

11-26-2020, 04:41 PMMike Izzy Wrote: put a 710 tpe goalie on Calgary and he doesnt go 36-4

Signatures by Vulfzilla, Jepox, Jess, rum_ham, Ragnar, and myself
[Image: 9vAsr7c.png]

DeletedAtUserRequest · 11-26-2020, 04:51 PM

11-26-2020, 04:45 PMFaelax Wrote:
11-26-2020, 04:41 PMMike Izzy Wrote: Hi Faelax,

Wins are a team stat and the goalie is apart of the team.. put a 710 tpe goalie on Calgary and he doesnt go 36-4..

but that said... can someone put the advanced goalie stats in here between the 2 as comparison?.. if the numbers are so brutally favored for Knox to ignore the meat and potato numbers above.. maybe this would make a bit more sense.
I dont have the numbers handy and I will have to find them.

But you could absolutely put a 7-8 hundred tpe goalie on Calgary and have them do really well. We have seen it a couple times already in the FHM era with Doyle on Buffalo and Jobin on Hamilton. You can put a lower tpe goalie behind a stacked team and have them do really well.

'Do well' and have a 'All time' type season are differant things though right?..

Yeah lets take a look at these advanced stats.. Did we have anyone from the awards committe make a post this season?.. took a peek and didnt see any.. maybe a good idea would be..if were going to use these metrics where not everyone has access too or would like to know what went into a decision.. it would definitley be helpful to read a post awards thread into the making of a winner of a category.

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***goldenglutes*** · 11-26-2020, 04:54 PM

11-26-2020, 04:51 PMMike Izzy Wrote:
11-26-2020, 04:45 PMFaelax Wrote: I dont have the numbers handy and I will have to find them.

But you could absolutely put a 7-8 hundred tpe goalie on Calgary and have them do really well. We have seen it a couple times already in the FHM era with Doyle on Buffalo and Jobin on Hamilton. You can put a lower tpe goalie behind a stacked team and have them do really well.

'Do well' and have a 'All time' type season are differant things though right?..

Yeah lets take a look at these advanced stats.. Did we have anyone from the awards committe make a post this season?.. took a peek and didnt see any.. maybe a good idea would be..if were going to use these metrics where not everyone has access too or would like to know what went into a decision.. it would definitley be helpful to read a post awards thread into the making of a winner of a category.

Jobin had 10 shutouts, 0.932 save percentage, and a 36-4 record. pretty similar to Vilde, and he has a grand total of 971 TPE right now.

wins and shutouts are a team stat, not a goalie stat

Signatures by Vulfzilla, Jepox, Jess, rum_ham, Ragnar, and myself
[Image: 9vAsr7c.png]

GCool · 11-26-2020, 04:55 PM

11-26-2020, 04:51 PMMike Izzy Wrote:
11-26-2020, 04:45 PMFaelax Wrote: I dont have the numbers handy and I will have to find them.

But you could absolutely put a 7-8 hundred tpe goalie on Calgary and have them do really well. We have seen it a couple times already in the FHM era with Doyle on Buffalo and Jobin on Hamilton. You can put a lower tpe goalie behind a stacked team and have them do really well.

'Do well' and have a 'All time' type season are differant things though right?..

Yeah lets take a look at these advanced stats.. Did we have anyone from the awards committe make a post this season?.. took a peek and didnt see any.. maybe a good idea would be..if were going to use these metrics where not everyone has access too or would like to know what went into a decision.. it would definitley be helpful to read a post awards thread into the making of a winner of a category.

Not every award winner has an all-time season. That's important to note.

Additionally, as someone who knows he can just look up a spreadsheet or something because there are MANY data people in here - I'm fine with trusting that the awards committee is looking at these when making decisions. The transparency of 1st/2nd/3rd place votes is enough for me to see, through rater agreement, if they're looking at things beyond wins and GAA.

***luke*** · 11-26-2020, 04:57 PM

Happy thanksgiving everyone

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