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*Jayba1t* · 08-21-2021, 11:11 PM

Colorado, and the 5th round Pick

Please split 25% of the pay to @hhh81 and 75% to me thanks!

Ah, don’t we all love 5th round picks? A real lottery pick at this point, most SMJHL just choose to pass a round or two later (or even now) Despite the apparent lack of talent or locks for picks, there are plenty of hidden gems remaining for a reason or two. Though most seem to pan out to their title, a 5th round pick and quickly go inactive and bust, there are a few people who will forever be a legend in Raptors history as steals, after GMs have picked about 50-60 players. Let’s go look at how Colorado has done in a round, where most expectations are low for players picked in this range. We will head down memory lane, and revisit the 5th round, reviewing every player that Colorado picked in the last 10 seasons.

Before I’d like to thank @hhh81, @LordBirdman, @Jumbobone19, @lespoils and @qWest for their opinions, thoughts, ideas and time when I conducted research for this. They really put tons of time and effort into this, and I truly appreciate the community we have in Colorado.

Season 61 – We will find out tomorrow!

Season 60 (56th overall) – Center Max Manning (wow, that’s me!)

Well, the main reason I chose to write this article was to see if Colorado has ever found potential gems in the round, I was drafted in. So far, I believe I have lived above my expectations, time will tell if I am a real steal or not. I had 18 points this season, 3 being goals and 15 assists. Not a horrible rookie season, but nothing too special or mindblowing either. Still a long way from the SHL, I am looking to being a playmaker and a real contributor for Seattle.

Reason being a 5th: Lack of scouting. I created a day before the SMJHL draft. Obviously, most GMs are all set on who they want, so only 2 teams reached out to me.

Verdict: Too early to tell.

Season 59 (54th overall) - Goalie Alexander Rask

This user created a player, then did not do anything and shortly went inactive real quick after. GM Jumbobone said he needed a backup goalie here and unfortunately it did not pan out after no better options. This happens.

Verdict: Bust.

Season 58 (49th overall) - Left Wing Jack Nishimori

Here is an excellent pick made by Colorado. I have raved over Nishimori quite a lot in all of my articles regarding the team, but if you missed them, he has a real solid foundation and plays a real two-way game, a threat on both ends of the ice. This is already looking like a steal, being 13th in his class TPE wise. One more season in Colorado now, Nishimori has made a huge impact on our present team. This season, he had a big showing, nearing the top of Colorado’s scoring leaderboards with 17 goals, 24 assists and 44 points. He blocked 63 shots, had 57 hits and rated out very highly on defense. One more season left in the J, Nishimori could take one more bigger step closer to stardom with Atlanta in the SHL. In 198 career Juniors games, he has 34 goals, 60 assists and 94 points. Not bad for a person picked in the 5th round.

Reason being a 5th: Lack of scouting and created later, quite close to the draft. Also, he was noncommitting to SHL. QWest said himself wasn’t sure if time could be made because of ISFL. Finally, he did not have a huge site presence.

Verdict: A real good pick here by Colorado, looking to be a steal.

Season 57 (53rd overall) - Goalie Rusell Rattie

After conversation with Birdman, he said this was another one of those in the dark, random shot picks. It did not work out very well, as the user quickly went inactive with Rattie.

Verdict: Bust.

Season 56 (56th overall) - Cal Cutta

Technically, this is not Colorado’s pick, as it was traded to Kelowna in a trade deal that I do not know about.

Season 55 (53rd overall) - Center Josh Dolphin

Alright, here comes a good player as we have Josh Dolphin swimming his way into the conversation of steals. Taken at slot 53, Dolphin eventually made waves in the SMJHL, finishing his 4-year tenure with Colorado, with 42 goals, 84 assists and 126 points in 231 games. He was a real playmaker and amazing at faceoffs, consistently posting strong faceoff numbers and assists. Unfortunately, like with most, inactivity plagued Dolphin’s career, and he has not revisited the site since May 2021. Hopefully, Dolphin may be able to return soon. However, in the bigger picture, Colorado still got great value for a 5th rounder in the end.

Verdict: Mostly good value for Colorado but looking like a miss for Atlanta.

Season 54 (44th overall) - Mertin Brodeur

How about the real steal? Shoutout to Jumbobone.

Season 54 (54th overall) - Center Lord Raiden

Ok, this might be slightly biased but to be fair, technically the 50s slots is what I am looking for in steals. Even though Lord Raiden was selected in the 6th round, he qualifies in my books as a modern-day 5th rounder. Raiden had a fantastic Juniors career, posting 43 goals, 49 assists and 92 points in 150 games, 3 seasons with Colorado. He was also a legendary faceoffs god. Although his Raptors tenure was shorter, Raiden still made an impact on the team as a whole as a power center, and can be safely declared as a draft steal, providing immense value to where they originally picked him. Currently with the Baltimore Platoon, Raiden had his best season, with 15 goals, 28 assists and 43 points in 66 games. Now into his 4th season in the bigs, Jumbobone also actively works as Colorado’s General Manager.

Verdict: Absolute steal.

Season 53 (48th overall) - Kyle Browning

How about the real steal? Shoutout to lespoils/JURT.

Season 53 (58th overall) - Center Jean-Uhtred Ragnarsson-Tremblay

Like Jumbobone, JURT was technically picked in the 6th round, but his overall position well enough counts as a modern-day 5th rounder. While in his early days, he did not put up many points, JURT was always a great defensive center that you could rely and count on to shore up. He posted consistent 60 Defensive Ratings, blocked shots, hit opponents and shutdown the other team. JURT scored 14 times, added 60 assists for 74 points in 200 career SMJHL career games. However, alongside Chicago, they unlocked a scoring touch that was previously undiscovered, and he absolutely took off. JURT posted up 2 40+ point seasons so far, but still retaining his stellar defense, getting physical with opponents as well. He is now with Seattle, after a trade, and is looking to be a long term solution there for the Argonauts.

Reason being a 5th: Speaking with JURT himself and hhh81, JURT was most likely picked that late because of his site presence and lack of scouting.

Verdict: Absolute steal. Looking good for Colorado and Chicago/Seattle.

Alright, there is technically 2 more seasons, but I don’t want to annoy Trips anymore since I feel like I’ve asked him enough questions for a few days lol.

Ok, now I asked all 3 GMs about their feelings and thoughts on some questions I made myself (Again, thank you to all 3 who took the time and responded to my questions with great detail):

Why do you think Colorado has had so much success in the 5th round?

Jumbobone: “We do a ton of scouting all the way up to the draft. Especially since myself, jurt and some others were late round picks we have a keen eye on those types of guys”

Birdman: “I think part of that is luck of the draw of the 5th compared to the 4th for example, both those rounds tend to be higher risk. More importantly I think Colorado makes a strong effort to get in touch with just about every prospect and has a good culture of scouting to identify attributes of users that we like.”

Hhh81: "People underestimate the importance of flat-out luck in the J. You can have successes based on good team scouting infrastructure and a great locker room, but at the end of the day some things come down to dumb luck. While I was GM, I wouldn't say we had a ton of success in the 5th round; as I stepped back, it seems like the depth and quality of drafts has gone up a bit, where now you can get some solid options in the 5th round or later. The management after me has done a good job finding and keeping those sorts of people active."

Do you think teams in general underrate the value of later round picks, as we see shots in the dark or random picks more and more often?

Jumbobone: I think it's a mix bag on late round picks. Some teams don't need as many picks as possible. Some teams like us always look for those diamonds in the rough type players. Teams fill on on recreates or just positions that they need and that's it. I think our scouting and mindset has helped in those late rounds finding the right guys

Birdman: “I think teams probably appropriately value late round picks. In some drafts, a 5th round pick is virtually useless because there are only 40-50 active players in the draft. Some larger drafts you can get a steal there, evidence by your article. It’s a game of probabilities and I think experienced war rooms have a good handle on that”

Hhh81: “I think it's very difficult to correctly evaluate later round picks, because it's entirely reliant on how big the class is. Most GMs are risk adverse, and those later picks are shots in the dark. For every breakthrough top end prospect taking in round 5 or later, there's 4-5 that never amount to anything. Many of the breakthrough later round picks are late first gen creates who join within 24ish hours of the draft, so no team really has a chance to get a solid feel for what they get. If they notice the late adds and take a chance, GMs can look smart.”

Any advice for people who get disappointed/lose motivation for being drafted so late?

Jumbobone: “Don't ever get down about being a late round pick, I use it as motivation to show teams what they missed out on. I would say keep doing your thing and make sure the team that got you gets the best you. I feel like I'm a top 10 player in my class overall, but I was selected in the 6th round in J and 2nd round in SHL. Didn't really let it bother me because I'm extremely happy where i went (BAP) and they wanted me, so I gave them my best. Also, I'd like the underdog role.”

Birdman: “For those disappointed with their draft position, history has shown time and time again that players drafted low absolutely can shoot up the draft board for the SHL and make fantastic players. There are tons of examples of it happening and a lot of GMs come from later round picks too.”

Hhh81: “The most important thing to remember is the SHL is a marathon, not a sprint. Consistent earning over several seasons will beat out flash in the pan people every time. Looking at my own player, I started off with a decent TPE disadvantage over the top earning recreates in my class (Alexander Selich, Leopold Lockhart, Andreas Kvalheim, etc); 2-3 seasons later, I was the top earner in the class and have held that position from then on. The top earner in the class isn't necessarily the best player, either. Find a pace/rhythm that works for you, be yourself, and you'll find the right fit in the J and SHL.”

There you go, a history and look into how Colorado fared in the mighty 5th round. Being an unpredictable and mostly luck-based round, you will never know who you really get. While there were players who never donned the Raptors jersey, most have defied all odds and crushed it for expectations on them. We have a few SHL regulars, an SHL prospect ready to break in soon, and one just recently drafted.

Credits:

hhh81 – Season 48 to 53 Colorado Raptors General Manager

LordBirdman – Season 56 to 59 Colorado Raptors General Manager

Jumbobone – Season 60 to present Colorado Raptors General Manager

lespoils/Jean-Uhtred Ragnarsson-Tremblay – Season 54 SHL Player

qWest/Jack Nishimori – Season 59 SMJHL Player

2103 words, 2x Draft Media

qWest · 08-21-2021, 11:50 PM

Good stuff! Thanks for the chat.

Henrik · 08-22-2021, 08:25 AM

Love to see it! Shoutout to @hhh81 for picking up myself and @gurbs in the 6th round lf the S49 J draft. Colorado doing work in the later rounds!

***notorioustig*** · 08-22-2021, 02:06 PM

Max Manning, draft steal x2 Argonauts

*Jayba1t* · 08-22-2021, 03:29 PM

08-22-2021, 02:06 PMnotorioustig Wrote: Max Manning, draft steal x2

thank you! Tig best GM for sho

***gurbs*** · 08-22-2021, 07:24 PM

08-22-2021, 08:25 AMThatguy91 Wrote: Love to see it! Shoutout to @hhh81 for picking up myself and @gurbs in the 6th round lf the S49 J draft. Colorado doing work in the later rounds!

Will always be grateful for @hhh81 Much love and proud to be apart of the Raptors family <3

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