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DeletedAtUserRequest · 02-02-2018, 01:47 PM

I do like this idea of rewarding players who hit cleanly. However, one of the flaws with using Hits (and Blocked Shots) is that it's very team dependent. If you're the best defensive forward in the league but you play on the best team then you'll have fewer opportunities to hit or block shots than someone playing on the worst team since your team will have the puck for a disproportionate amount of time. Last season, for example, Toronto allowed 16% more shots than Calgary did.

I hear that but almost everything can end up being team dependant when it comes down to it... guys on bad teams scoring a ton because theres no one else to to score is team related... players with huge numbers cause they have a great surrounding cast can be team related as well.

CBears, Evans and yourself def. make solid points.... i just think that if we are going to put a criteria together for defense to reward defensive and or 2 way players.. they should at least start and end with legitimate defensive attributes.. Hits, Blocks, Hits/Turnover ratio, Hits/PIM ratio, PK numbers and +- to a degree.

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CBear · 02-02-2018, 02:02 PM

I think PK Play should be a huge indicator. Bearss played 167 PK minutes (2nd most in the league, next to the great Visser himself at 175) and together they helped lead the Jets to 2nd best PK%. Down by 0.19% to the Pride.

But it seems that the winner is always Points + Hits, instead of anything remotely to do with defense.

Beaver · 02-02-2018, 02:50 PM

Quote:Originally posted by raymond3000+Feb 2 2018, 12:36 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1' id='QUOTE-WRAP'><tr><td>QUOTE (raymond3000 @ Feb 2 2018, 12:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Just want to point out that it's the Karpotsov Trophy, not Karpotsev. PT team has been copying and pasting it wrong for years.

And its nice to see some.actual SHL discussion on the site. I feel like that has been missing for a while.[/b]

Fixed, thanks. I feel especially dumb since it's spelled correctly on the SHL Awards History thread that I was referencing constantly.

<!--QuoteBegin-Coach Biz@Feb 2 2018, 12:47 PM
I hear that but almost everything can end up being team dependant when it comes down to it... guys on bad teams scoring a ton because theres no one else to to score is team related... players with huge numbers cause they have a great surrounding cast can be team related as well.

CBears, Evans and yourself def. make solid points....  i just think that if we are going to put a criteria together for defense to reward defensive and or 2 way players.. they should at least start and end with legitimate defensive attributes.. which are Hits, Blocks, Hits/Turnover ratio, Hits/PIM ratio, PK numbers and +- to a degree.[/quote]
Oh yeah, absolutely. One of the hardest things in sports analysis is looking at team performances and trying to surmise individual contributions. Context is really important but which adjusting factors you value really just comes down to personal preference.

What's more impressive: scoring more points in less time on a better, higher scoring team or scoring fewer points in more time on a worse, lower scoring team?

There's no right answer but that's one of the questions awards committees have to answer for themselves each season - in fact we faced that sort of situation on the SMJHL Awards committee when evaluating Yannick Berger (27 points in 1087 minutes on Halifax) and Mikhail Lokitonov (26 points in 761 minutes on Prince George) for Rookie of the Year. Throw in the complication of trying to measure defensive prowess by proxy (rather than being able to use something straightforward like points) and trying to settle on a Dar winner is a mess.

~~formx~~ · 02-02-2018, 03:14 PM

Quote:Originally posted by CFJ@Feb 2 2018, 09:24 AM
Wew Abes with 61 votes to win the goal race. That's eye opening for me.

People who picked Abes are very uneducated and respect diversity and MY PEOPLE too much. Cut it down a little.

Now I shall speak to MY PEOPLE..... IN MY LANGUAGE..... OF PUNJABI

Oh thodi pan di lun apna Surrey walay munday nu cut kartha? Farlo tattay

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