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+--- Thread: Playing time (/showthread.php?tid=70907)
- Pandar - 12-07-2016
Quote:Originally posted by ArGarBarGar@Dec 7 2016, 09:45 AM
Nope.
Says someone who has no depth and likes to give his active players playing time.
Though I may sound like a hypocrite considering I ran a GM connected league where I imposed time limits on players in the game.
I think this really gets at the heart of a different issue, though.
Using my AC research as a proxy for "active members" we had about 190 last season (max 215, min: 171)
We have 14 teams. This means, each team, if evenly distributed, would have 13-14 actives. Under "ideal" conditions this would probably be:
8-9F, 4D, 1G
BUT, we have a fair number of players tied up in SMJHL. I have no good way to estimate how many actives are on junior teams, but I'll guess that it's between 10-20% of the userbase. If this is the case, then we only have between 171 and 152 actives in the SHL.
If we divide these players evenly this would be 11 - 12 players per team, giving:
6F, 4D, 1G
Now, this isn't taking into account good inactive filler players, but if the goal is to have teams full of actives, and have 3 full lines F and D, we'd need 16 players per team. The only way to really make that possible is to contract to being a 10 team league, without us adding 53 active SHL users (not SMJHL).
I don't know how many inactives there are, and I'm not going to spend a bunch of time working this one out. BUT... it's an issue that deserves discussion that's related to the matter at hand.
- Allen - 12-07-2016
Quote:Originally posted by Bojo@Dec 7 2016, 11:00 AMWhat I'm seeing proposed is a penalty to teams with lack of talent or talent being developed. You don't see top tier teams giving out crazy minutes because that's not beneficial to them. It's fine as it is, don't change it.
Except for Minnesota, but still fair point.
- Pandar - 12-07-2016
Quote:Originally posted by Allen@Dec 7 2016, 10:59 AM
To back up my point, none of these players made the playoffs (save Lloren, but I'd argue SEA got lucky).
Those players come from 4 teams. 2 made the playoffs, 2 didn't.
I didn't include Forwards who were playing 23-24.99 minutes, because yes, we don't have the same depth of talent that the NHL does. But that doesn't mean that we should accept 15% (or way more) inflation of TOI because of it.
- Pandar - 12-07-2016
Quote:Originally posted by Allen@Dec 7 2016, 11:03 AM
What I'm seeing proposed is a penalty to teams with lack of talent or talent being developed. You don't see top tier teams giving out crazy minutes because that's not beneficial to them. It's fine as it is, don't change it.
And just like in real life, teams that are developing talent shouldn't do as well. If you're rebuilding through draft and development that takes time. I don't see how limiting players to a reasonable amount of ice-time is unduly punishing (or even punishing at all) a team in a rebuild.
- Allen - 12-07-2016
Quote:Originally posted by Pandar@Dec 7 2016, 11:10 AMif a team was double shifting all their players and winning challenge cups every season I'd say it's an issue, but they're not. It is not beneficial to do so. It literally just comes down to wanting to be like the NHL. This is not the NHL and a lot of things that happen here do not correlate to it whatsoever. Picking this out as an issue seems like nitpicking and just finding reasons to complain.
Those players come from 4 teams. 2 made the playoffs, 2 didn't.
I didn't include Forwards who were playing 23-24.99 minutes, because yes, we don't have the same depth of talent that the NHL does. But that doesn't mean that we should accept 15% (or way more) inflation of TOI because of it.
- ArGarBarGar - 12-07-2016
Quote:Originally posted by Allen@Dec 7 2016, 12:03 PMWe should also allow players need teams with a lot of depth a chance at individual success as well.
What I'm seeing proposed is a penalty to teams with lack of talent or talent being developed. You don't see top tier teams giving out crazy minutes because that's not beneficial to them. It's fine as it is, don't change it.
Though plenty of those players do get a pretty good chance most of the time. Wagner didn't play a lot compared to Garbanzo and will most likely win the Stevens this year.
- Chris-McZehrl - 12-07-2016
Quote:Originally posted by WannabeFinn@Dec 7 2016, 04:58 PM
As much as I don't like seeing players like McZ get double shifted.. I disagree. Don't impose time limits on players.
please stop this shit!
look to all the last 10 seasons! we had so many with more and same ice time like McZ as forward! <_<
- Baelor Swift - 12-07-2016
Quote:Originally posted by Pandar@Dec 7 2016, 11:14 AMYour replacement level players here are significantly worse than those in the NHL. Most teams are rostering players with around 300-400 TPE and these players get eaten alive. In the NHL, the separation of talent between the best players on a roster and the worst is not nearly as drastic.
And just like in real life, teams that are developing talent shouldn't do as well. If you're rebuilding through draft and development that takes time. I don't see how limiting players to a reasonable amount of ice-time is unduly punishing (or even punishing at all) a team in a rebuild.
- sarmo - 12-07-2016
Quote:Originally posted by Baelor Swift@Dec 7 2016, 10:17 AMGood point also
Your replacement level players here are significantly worse than those in the NHL. Most teams are rostering players with around 300-400 TPE and these players get eaten alive. In the NHL, the separation of talent between the best players on a roster and the worst is not nearly as drastic.
- Baelor Swift - 12-07-2016
And believe me... I don't think there is any GM here who wants to just pad stats and not be a cup contender. But there is no way to contend overnight... Imposing time limits when you lack depth DOES hurt a team because of the talent differential. This issue we are seeing is part of the reason why we need to decrease the salary cap and/or change the salary tiers.
- Allen - 12-07-2016
Quote:Originally posted by Baelor Swift@Dec 7 2016, 11:20 AMHonestly, if we want to get super cereal about being realistic we should not only impose minute caps, but also a hard TPE cap, a harsher update scale, and production related minimum salaries. This idea that the TOI ruins the sim is stupid.
And believe me... I don't think there is any GM here who wants to just pad stats and not be a cup contender. But there is no way to contend overnight... Imposing time limits when you lack depth DOES hurt a team because of the talent differential. This issue we are seeing is part of the reason why we need to decrease the salary cap and/or change the salary tiers.
- tweedlebrumm - 12-07-2016
Quote:Originally posted by Baelor Swift@Dec 7 2016, 08:20 AM
And believe me... I don't think there is any GM here who wants to just pad stats and not be a cup contender. But there is no way to contend overnight... Imposing time limits when you lack depth DOES hurt a team because of the talent differential. This issue we are seeing is part of the reason why we need to decrease the salary cap and/or change the salary tiers.
Agree with this, I feel like salary cap is a much larger issue than playing time.
- ArGarBarGar - 12-07-2016
Remove hometown discounts.
- Allen - 12-07-2016
Quote:Originally posted by ArGarBarGar@Dec 7 2016, 11:29 AMRemove Bojo
Remove hometown discounts.
- .bojo - 12-07-2016
Look at you, SHL, working together and stuff. so proud.